PUBLISHED (wmkit) BY A HALL V 'S. Trs&4jj
' f6t. 'rtii? jro. 374."
v - . -i . .; ..-
ii
4 5
4.
'II
v t
V
I
fur
VI
i
.
il;
1
POLITICAL,
' - . 7 row tha Americaa Mercery. No. X
to tm rtimiK or coxaieTicaT., , .
Icllom-Citiztnsl
, IT appears by Mr. Griswold 's own decla
. rations published an the Mercury of last week,
that Mr. Tracey's interview with him wait
i not rejutiby Mr. Tracey. I. feel great?
, alacrity, jla correcting the rmistak.' It is a V
circumstance af little or no importance as it i
V, respects the main question before, the public. '
I have already r-obserr ad that ,everv thine:
which I stated relative t6-thfeinterrieW, -ex-".
cept tne substance-pt, l raceys remark, was
stated from menwiryJMhat witkregard fo the
: substance of the" aonversation I had stated
' that from minutes taken at the time I re
' ceived the information. ; Mr. Griswold it
seems after the conversation was over, did,
, ,n reflection, consider uit as having been par1
ticulariy intended and previously planned by
Mr. Tracey. At least so I now understand
' him ( and it is highly probable that this idea,
r Hot to distinctly expressed, as at present, or
perhaps heard with less attention, as being a
.circumstance of little moment, impressed my j
jhiad as a declaration that the interview wasi
requested by Ml. Tracey. And indeed as it
respects any question that the, public are to
decide, I see not how it is to be affected whe
ther Tracey requested, or only -designed and
bought for the interview. The.tdvantages of
this conversation, however, be they - what
. they may,bclong fairly to Mr. Tracey. You
'-will understand then Fellow-Citizens, that the
conversation took place, as has been ton
stantly stated, at the house of Passion Cham-'
, pion that it wasnot five or six, ;but: more
than eight years ago that Dr. Sheldon va$
present during part of the conversation, and ,
.as will appear in the sequel, that part of it
which he did hear, he was at the time- able to
, comprehend and yorj will also understand -
that the interview vu not solicited by Mr. !
Tracey. ;' - r
.. Mr. Griswold, in his statement abovernen
tioned, informs the public that minutes -of.
the conversation taken at the period it took
place, are contained in what he calls i Mt .
jnoir. He observes also that with respect to
the substance of the conversation' aa stated
by me, it is generally correct, tho expressed
some what differently from the Memoir; and
that my statement varies in some respect
from the precise Ideas communicated by
Mr. Tracey." J. did endeavour to convey
the ideas precisely as I received them, with-,
m.' .out ptcnlintc,ijowevervlo,cUMe them In
the ssme language in wntcn i receivea mem.
It will perhaps inevitably happen that in the
course of a lengthy and multifurcous com
munication, -there will be in some respects,
shades of difference between the ideas of the
speaker, as lie means to cenvey thorn,' and
.those impressed on the mind of the hearer.
Mr. Griswold has keen so obliging as to en-'
trust me with his Memoir, and that tke pub
lie may be enabled to judge whether I have
been unjuttto Mr. Tracey ia my statement
of the convention, and wherein consists
this difference of , nidi Mr. Criswod speaks,
I now communicate the conversation ia Mr.
Criswold's own words .
" After flattering me for a Sermon lie
ttad heard me prearh on ihe divine go
vernmenmf the world, he took occaunn
to open to me his ideal on civil govern-
rnenr, and InggeRed a lyltrmol policy,
fcheme or plan which he fiid was well un
dtrflood and ' fettled with many of the
leading men in our government , pani
u'rty in the NcwEoj,1and ftatct,& fome
at the fouthward, anJ hich was drier,
pined to be brought about iw this country.
Hi tltrvfd thi ihrt vntfmHhig ia U
mrrj (Irvir fe' ibt tUrgj. I he fuo dance
at :tlvtlwit
That the people of ihii emmtry cn.
joy too much liberty, aed by far too
much equality. He defcribed how they
aownriof the foil they till, each trsn
lb?l rji J Utile Jo r ijsL tiC pitttOioni.i.-it.
gfnersiiy about equal in propertrnot
oblijttl to toil very hard -having fotne
whu o fpire of their earnings over and
aSove a bire fubfifltnce, and having lei
fort tv ii'end in many idle ohjefti, &C.
lie applied this dcfcripiion pirticularly to
Comxdicm, and NewEpglaod, tc fpoke
of it as being a condition of focicty highly
Vfl,l IKiruiT, HIV III IIIV VlillllVII
the? grcailr aiQook their own hir
Thai fo long at this condition cnn.
linues government mult forever be weak
and gM4 for little or nothing, contlnu.
ally sipofed In cppofnioo, hindrances,
turmoili, in fur regions, and an over,
throw. For befide tha natural fplric of
p title and infubmiltin( infeparable frnm
people of fuch habits and ftich circum
Hinci, they are abU to Ity out their
iri.ins in bujfhg Hewfpspert, Booki,
he. and having Irifiire to read, ibey' of
touift become ngh plitlclini, ac
quaimcd befarehrnd witU all that eughi
inpi.
be done by goremment, and with all thai
ought r.ot to be done, are ready .to pro
nounce what is done right & What wrong
and fo will: condemn public;, mcafiires
which happen not to comport exall
with their great knowledge, or which
crofs their prefent iotcrefls.and will not
fuffer them to be carried.-into execution, '
You know, faid he, that every man in
Connecticut is a politician, and knows
more than thofe he fends ia Congrefi.-
He had much v to fay uponjhe inconven
iences and dangers of fuch a ftsle of
'things ; and bettowed not a little ridicule
'upon the boafted liberty and equality - of
the NewEnglanders, for the prefervatifjn
ct hich they fo ftrenuodfly ' coiurrJed in
the revolution. . Clairr.iu . it all with
' French Liberty he condemnet) the whole
decidedly (tho' French Liberty wis ' npt
then unpopular in ibis country). 1 n fpra-
; king on this fubieft one of hit) obfervatiohs
r was, iiiai ino I rcc 9 ttocrij rrvwf in mut.
and an tne iioerry roics uui. ever were
id America, franco and Holland, nitre
'.tut twig and Jbtott f-thi iruni Inein
That tliti condition of the people
mult be broken up, and that our court'
try can never be happy until it. is done.
c He adverted to the Briiifh govctoment
and (late of focicty at - the beft in the
world, and fignihed that-this country
mull sflimilate loGreat-Bruain, in ihel'e
refptcl "That we mult have iKinr here,
-but that he mort not be calleJ Khigf or
' the good old whigs would 'flail at the
name, becanle they once tought againll a
ling and have been led to conUlirihc
name with abhorrent e. He mutt be cal-
. led a FrrjiJt ntt but rourt have every etf .n
tial requiliie of a king in a limited mo
narchy. ' ' -:.'.':: ' ' -
"That we mnll have a Wy of Noh'emen
here, but ihcy mult r.ot be ca.lcd Noble.
men, for the whigs would Hart a' 'his alfa.
Tey mult however have the ciTential re
quifites of a body of Nobicintr.
.' Ttat we mull teve at ejiutriktd ftli-
pan here, and an tfiablijhed tierij,wilhiDJ
Jat falurist, independent f tit prtplf.
' Thai after all this the icit o .he pen.
of mttft be rcdnrftJ Ia a riinditiu in
which they will bligd to toil hard, bs .
ffupp'ied wiih dra'ns" totke,offint
lr one y, 'leaving hem hardly a (oflititney
tofupporl lile, unable to buy Newfpaprr,
and tu. become fu.h m'hty polhicians
knowing io mure thin how tn plougK,
and hoe, and po to meeting, mind iru-ir
own bnfmeli, and let enltmcn go on &
makelaws, anJ the executive .admlnillcr
them without faying why do ye fo. Then
it will be happy limes the people will be
eefily governed, and the govcrnnicnl will
hac energy. And not till (hen will the
country be happy. In this Uagc of the
difcourie he remarked, with difappio
bation, upan ihe tondncfi cf New-Eng.
Jand people to fchool their children and
fa id he wrfhed the ConneA'Cut Wcllern
Reftrve were fui k out of eaillencr, and
last the people-ot Connecticut vtiighl ne
ver reap a cent's beneht from it for tle
purpofe nf fihoolinjj.
t hat one great means to bring a'l
th s about was a PuU'h PrH, Fundi, and
fasts. He laughed at the motives which
impc led the howcl o'd Whijjs to under
take the American. Revolution, and a-
cnieve me inJcptnrtence c iMi country
he approved the idepadcnce, but ridicn.
led taa motives by which ihe people were
led lo accompliflt it; as If they were there
by going to lecure ihcmfelves forever Irom
heavy taxation, and prcfervd their tqual
and free llatr of Ijvini?. and he caustic
hughed at their motM .fI.aiW'ii tha
-uamrgavcrnmenl, fa far as they hoiH(T
oy laciiraung tne coiieclion ot Revenue,
lo pay off the public debt. Inilci.1 of
paring it oflT, ot leaning it t all, hj held
that It mutt be encreafed by every pr.fliMt
means. . A public debt, in the nrlt place,
was neceflTary ia order lo create funds
and funds wert nectfliry, in order ta rsisa
up a bpJr of Nob'emen, or what were a.
qual lo Noblemen with, a flrong eiecu
live at iheir head Then lues would be
nec-ITiry in order fo tliflhsrge tha Inter
elt of ihe fund or debt i whith tv falling
upon xhafeeplt to pyf would provt con
tcmrnl drawn to take oft their fpira mo.
ney ami lu time when iha debt fhrn,!,
betome largn tnough, would 0Hliet ihrm
to rellnq..,lh ihe, Jl. cnrUfity shout
NewrpapeiaandpoU.ki.and compel ihrm
to attend to nothing, and lo know nothing
but to plough and hex, and goto oietlirg.
and let government lnne.
M Such war ih outline of the plan at
f ierted to me. , Through Se whoW !
had rcafoa 'obtllevthim fcriout aad fin-
cere.'., it iseertain I took him to he; fb, (
anwaa greatly alarmed " at what I had
Heard,v f eiprefled ' utter vaftonilh-
ment, anf joidWh-i that whateverl.reafan :
Wi to Ktrtfnrl. ih Mr brf r, ddiin the ff flifln f
yhCfit AITcatbly.to di(Iretiit,. ibofe priocipUrt,
pd itaH. kc bid ii other butintli I turibet eert'ly,
Ihit (I ihn lim Dr Shrldoo reid oi Ibc Iriicf whicb ha
! bld ricd (romr tnhn Gi'tlwot), icImide i thit
coMifio, lf4 tn Mifvrrt hicb he bjd prtpned -
I to (en4 Mi. (wifwold, or cop, ol leticr which bt
t Jm4 Kiaihy leui, bicb 1 cbi pi wuh cleaiMlimneoi. .
, ker I luubef certify iht the, iiBcipJf hich Or.
: ShtKoi cblervert to wi, cbmin from Gen Tracey,
'difl not lococh turpnie nx i, tint as moQ-a pt lj-ui
tie In prop tuini them lor l,t yh.t lime and eVt "
i Once the spring ot 'yijkivemdifhimly entertained tn '
V'nbtnioa that Gen, Traiev wi hottile lo bMh civil and
relipiani liberty at be on h'i, y from Ha'tford ibat
?priK, fell in .orapan with tni, tn Hirwing'on, iii4
h jit'Suned nte ol tha Cootcience Rill (toea I d) which
failed iut4 a law thai ieifinn, and iouk tnur, eaina
! lo com, file ma t f .tht iropripy, ef tba Um I tha October !
I ri
ha might Hive from rny perforial' frienU ;
ip,'proielIionaI chaiacler or -other" cir-1
jCumrfanres, to expeca Tihar' I 'would ad
prove of fuch a fcheme ' I uu call it i
wicked tyon& meaftfrevtotva1ly'Op'nbfite to
liic prtiitrpica ui vnr rcTuiutii'ir, aiiu ur
what I believed to n feternal equity 5 and
. rihteoufnefi f lhat I' mull refiu it Trj e- '
very part that I contidered on country
in a'mtift jperilous: H" ystion f' it, fticft .' a
.m,,j yV,ywVrf.y, ""1 , I : feiT.on foltcwiog. I well iamemr (bcinf a member
leaninc men-and tnat it ilio people 6t I Kanyiaf t-h ix-uM bat on tr!ucjon offend tonbs
this ftf . hail heard what I hwl hejtd- ol h? !" T"y lewia ibersaaa
execrate mwiatm miri nun iRom t.ii piace,
andconfiija lim to.ignrimy and eon'tfillp'f."
'He entered Jnto a firited viri i licar tort .oft
what be bad. laid dawn, and was ' at limes
- exceedingly warmv , 'The' dtnate5 coiitin-
ed till ooepr two o'clock .at r.ij'hr, when
he left fno without being at'all nearer to-
gelher irr lbrtitntcnta.7 ;-
i The cbnrersation as tioW stated, Mr. Oris
woldsolumtly declares did take place. T his
ia denied by Nathan'S two gentlemen, Di
bheldan and Betsey' Champion. lN With- re
card to ihf latter bnoutrb has perhaps .been
ssid tocoisince" most of you, fe Lw-utizvns,
that her nrme ouffht to be struck, out oi the
list ot gentlemen, as , it has for thirty years
been erail froiri the list oXl'adlts, ;,ln short
it is uaqaeMlonibly true that ivbere she is
know her testimony would not decide the
property bf a straw : and if it could be ncce s-
aary to nvke further answer to such testimo
ny, oisuth a woman, it can now be proved
that sine! subscribing the certificate that has
oven punished, she has declared that Jt was
with great reluctance she did it, as she re-
cnllur.tednotUitig particular about the .con
vci-sat oi that she was told that it was a datj
he ovedfttrG'xi i j something, and that it
probablj would not be pu blinltcd, and she re
kllyhodit would not.' Thedungef is, fcl
lowitien, that to lioncst, uncori upled men
snch astiiost of yon are, thut a truBitction
late this will appear impossiMe i ycu will he
, pt to rtiect all evidence that 'govs to prove
won wto call themselves respecuile and
vhom yo have been in the haLit if coiim
tJenrvtassach, capable of such IrinKinAnt
'tnravity. What! apply to a drutken brute
-ltT?t jjer inthe name fcfihe Most 'Hiah,
le-sr wituesa to -a downright paTpuble
lulcnoodi: it this possible f 1 es tbis is
poi' le. It will be rerollecied that in my
laitnutnher I intimated thut the certificates
of tihsldon and Betsey Champion were writ
ten atd prepared by Nathan, 1 now repeat
the charge, and challenge either Nathan or
lludsmand Goodwin lo coutrsdict it. Bet.
aey Cismpion's testimony may be laid out.of
the qn-stion, especially at it has ever wen
understood that she hss at all times stood
ready todotfttr ihngtggrttljy Mr. Tracey.
vith regard to Dr. Miel on, the loilowing
certificates will shew how he formerly unOet
stood what he heard of Ihe conversation . and
of course what credit is due to his certificate.
The character of Esq. Prindle Is extensively
known. ' I think 1 shall not be contradicted
when! say that his integrity Is undauUed,
and that he Is not like Dr. SUldon noted
for a treacherous memory. Uis certincste
explains the teasort why SbeUlon unbo
somed himself to Mm. Of Sheldon's
answer to Mr GriiwtMda letter 1 have heard
nothing mere than is ststcd by Csq.PrinHle
if ananwer was cvennsflr, probably Dr.
RhelAm will puUian h'. r The Mcsars.Grants
are, as I am informed, very reputable men,
of fair characters.
I, MARK fXIXDL. of iW aw m4 tonnry af
Ll.eak, d. da tenltt. Tkat W 14 aMli a4 U y.iyS),
1 epWy4 Dr Dantl Shald, ! ilSitl. aa a
PbttVien a rend ay (aa, wax raa a( lbf liats UI,
and whHb il'nttt ba tied Il nmi Sand iy mot
in ba time ba larrird w'lb a tba okala dy (a
raaa liana I aabaad M HnUrl and ,1-ei b bad
-tXrxUdua Ik ralata. bav iaanwdtr-rty bfo-.V.d ,b
- aa n( roluKi I Ta mtka n, Cen.fc.,., n-ar, i.
Sa lif bW, I taaailn.ibal waa a Twy ('a Sailed) M
lb in-n'ot.onara r. w- all M tbli nt,iv4
aanaxk Udetalil (In fat as fodetelUat ar lb uaat wa
Snowa ad aa,aad V Dr. Wldn wa wt a-qwo-ad
wUh ib taAa. bt Iraal mU(m4 blaaMI
M aM M UM InbjaA nt fn nnrM. H (.id " lka ba
O'd Tntwa wb oars lawb t a I a i at S, r.atb
ba n.n In, t at ib nnfant daf, , tl..u latMi
nanarsl anenMd lb WA aod bit aa-da ( Adnrinit
waiinav" D. Uaidaa if Una aoiM in aa ibm
IHifo Crtlwald ib matpeUi, bU tba ffg td
ntofrbaj a) LlitkAeld. nnd aha ettta ba wai
la rrUaCaiaW,la4 la baa-alg, b, ybda
talWd aa kia, and aeaet, Una ahtf Cn T a-ay. ks
(.Id, aln e, an Paetaa C,fnaaa'., and tun bld a
my Unrat n-J-tlcU anavarlMtaa aMb t;mma,J.
wnld. la SWIdaa M ibai 1 relaMd ta oMtmr al.
. a .a . a a . . ' . .
nnawa an aMMtnMMina, at aa n .n aald , .,Kb
ataary laafbtl lk nanie.lnr, at iblndiBaxaalrHM
aa ta anaSdnabbj avaWa atoat mm 1 ba M la
ill a Ira llmMll and cn.ld.-aa ibat 1 ,-uJleVI
and a. ibn b m Id bm ibat .r,, nb-la W was
'' ! Wa ibm lir.,,,4 Mnaanbi a Mm
aaa tad '. rfa a4 t-rm inat ,ant raiaVd-1
bntla IraUanna then adaanand III!.. C. !.-
la."'.1' ..'. . i . ... . '
1 . Wi Iha SviMcttoeia, or nt town ana cousir ot Lite. . -
' Hltf; djerlily, thai ! Pnil .'heldori, con 6dt labia
l.nie (go, beirK at our hocle ai phyTiciao, btaa ta
Jiib-o i.h tit oa tha fubjea ot olitiet, at.d amoag 01 her - .
t intngi on ia ni nai urn 1 1 ntcy in inn ooico corner . ,
lui' a with F.rton Critwoltl laid that lha cotr-Bow
ffgple iiaphi to p t on their Leu her Apronaaad etund 'r .
Id their awn bultntfi tad let politic end tba toacerna
i l (oveninstol alone, and bt; be (T(ce) would attend, V
,10, bit l-o (rellinnal tjiiotl, without Wttftiuddliag !
llit bufmtd ol coaaatna atantt.'' y - ' ' .
, : AMBROSE CRAKT, ;
-V' -V t -'v; ; cbari.es gran r. ,. ; '
"thchfieM, pee. 14, 183 ,' ','
', AS I intend here to finish what I have to
. observe relative to this part of the charge a
i gainst Mr. Tracey, that is," his conversation
1 with Mr Griswold, I beg leave to recapitu- '
4te in few words " the 'proof that has been
produced on either side In the first place, '"f
thenv Mr.Griwold declares the Conversation f
to have been such it now' stated -he siya '" ,
he took minutes of it at the time it ja cer
tain that at the time he wrote a letter corrss- ;Ja
ponding with his present declarations it is
certain too iliat when he wrote the letter he
twas on tenns of intimacy with, and strongly
attached by the ties of personal .friendship
to MiwTrucey he could not have- mistaken
the purport of the conversation ; this is not
pre'ended no motive liss bevn, nor do,I be- . ,
leeva can be imagined, that should! have indu- '
crd him wilfullv to calumniate Mr. Tracer t
f for if the CPnrefkation 111 tu'rh a Rlirliinn
atates; it could not possibly have given an of.
fence lo Mr. Criswold it could not have in- .'
U-rrnpted hjs friendship for Mr, Tracey t
inigbi add, but that is certainly nnnecesssry,
that his rharaotae-and tttrimifbnrt tenor tf
hi conduct through life, place him out of
the rcsch of a suspicion 01 this base kind. .
On the other hanil. Dr. Sheldon (1 shall
say nothing further of Betsey Champion) de
clares that no such conversation as is stated,
took place 1 at the same time be ia guilty of
gross ttlf-eontrediction j 'and publishes Mr.
Griswold's letter, which to any candid mind '
demonstrates his statement to ba incorrect.
Then follow the certificates of three men,
either of them entitled to as much credit aa
Dr. Sheldon, even il he were not known to bo
so entirely under the influence of Tracey and
other great men, aa to say what they -say,
and to believe what they believe
without ' '.veil the power of recollecting
what he had ever sa'd or believed to tha
contrary. These eC.tifirates are too explicit
to need comment. In short, theonly difficul
ty seems now to be, how f shall preserve tea
the Doctor the clisraclrr for honesty which t
hare allowed him, Perhaps I wss mistaken
I still think, however, as I fore. The Doc
tor seems ta me to be much such a charac
ter as the celebrated Sancho Pants, who ha
ving stoutlv asserted his knowledge of ceVtain
incredible facts, when pressed on the subject
confessed that he was not present when they
took place, but that his friend lad assured,
him thst they were so true thst he might
tattily swear he had teen them with his oars'
eyes."- ....... .. ........
, That tha Doctor hss testified directly in
the face of truth, and ef his former declara
tions, is, if I am not greatly rnistsktn, for thw
present put bere-ad all doubt in evtry ndnd
not resolved agsitislcaiiTtcUon. ' DAVID.
Tke Mxting is seiitd from tnucelbme,
olume, ffiuhtd in 1793 r
lh
nmen
insomelio
them. So
iled out
Hl-eaMieMT,tndtaltaaaVlHa. K4
Lara, fn.lt kigbly (Wa ,Ma ba.ai l r'1
aad eat" w-ad (', ,b b... a-tr
M.ip tWlIMa. I tVr tbi f) -ta abaeka
a aat anktSH l y TM(, n4 Lb La U
aaaaa ta ibat aaaaawt t t. e. laatataa, bad
am kbaa s Sa h l iaeA' Ttaaay, b4
Oat striking ft sturein the politic ,
t -f . l n , 1. 'ai 1
pieKiwi ot tne iuitn ttcpuuiic -
children of both sexes are. from lr
of the earliest capability, iii'iJhtrr
of Industrious avocation inv . ,.
Jon and tycurgua could ' " 1.1
States. lt.inV,VAltTr
tha Crest that J;?
i. ..i'r" fond f arms
anlurJe ., theary. Il
holds enuan'0' tn thlrtn ,tr'' lra'n
art an la J,rT inchlia la H in Gli'.U.
ritv-f l xU t h 1'. M I
jjtlhtteirgrowth.snd strengthens with. ,
eir strenrth., To auf country men, wo
y hope the appliestisw la evidenu If they ao
(Itwrn toeir iiiiit onei ta nonrit employ -
men's (stub ss wil suit their years, constitu
tion and choices) they wll Ihertiy render ,
them virtuous an! independent citixens, a
credit to themaelws, and aaomsmtnt to so-
tiny. The cqnarquencts af a diCsrent ton
duct are idnUN
0:f
i
1
J ' '
I-1