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118; J: i 1 te AWrrn.v.jvet were Embargo or :i,fc-' that the rfo)lc oi thu -rt:re t r. ir t re UvgtfyHOglO miri lac irmcr at rnjuve t passive, and vou'J perhaps oha injurious r icr me latter as even ics inniriou i , i ,,.cts' tod mote connialwiih the spinl of.a - free p'';'- - ' 4 -' i He decUrcd to me that every opinion which be " "enteru'.ned u.spc;kng the best intc reus his coun- try led him to wishl tlwtt food uridersunding - should take p!ace be'. ten G. Briuin and the Uni ' ted States, ad thi Le thought that the obvious ad vantages which wculd thereby result to both coan- tries were a sufficient pledge of the sincerity of his ... r raiments,. . L' 1 " -, - . '.v ; -..is. , The' reasons which Induce me to believe that the view and determinations of this government. . as described to tne by Mr. Madison, are their real sen- ' timents, and that they will pursue that course of ' conduct which they have marked out, arise irom i " ; nature consideration of the actual state of the affairs s cf this country, the particular situation of the go vernment and ruling party, and from certain private but important communicationa which have been "'' TO ide to me by some of the member of the admin' ' ' Lst ration, who are sincerely desirous of a conciliation - -with ( Bi luin. - ' v It js evident from every thing which has Jately taken place in this country, that the people at large . ;, are desirous of having the Embargo removed j"bu ,, it Is also to be collected from the result of the elec -lions throughout the U. Si that the present ruling k party have a decided, majority of the people vwitb I ' them, and as they have pledged themselves not' t6 '.repeal it, "while the restriction 'upon ."the neutral '):' rights' continue in force by both belligerents, wth . out substituting war measures, and as they them- selves acknowledge ' that the ultimate and only ef- -. '- : iectuai mone oi resisung sucn wariare, u pcrsisiea ". in, ittwarand " that a. permanent suspension of . commerce rrauld not properly bo resistance, but v submission cannot therefore conceive thai ii ,. would be possible for them to retract their declara tions, and indeed, they would not , have the, pawer . of continuing the embargo more than six months, " .n .. and of course, therefore they must, substitute - war 7 , y-. ' measures when it should oe wituarawn, unless they " " .iA-yren tbandotf..iui ftie Tpindples they have laid ". . ! down, and td change all the resolutions hich,they ' , . y1 have so unequivocally expressed, y- '-.y' .; ; ' ' It is true that they might possibly do so, if they : ," . - found themselves pressed by the number fc strength '''vi.AKtneW-opP11! or change in ;;tlie opinions rJ,:'f of their Mdjority amongst thecople i but it ts plain ' , from the decision in the. House of -Representatives ,r '- ' ' in Congress, upon; the resolutions'-proposed by the i?, committee appointed to conidcr the subject of their Foreign relations, which was carried by a majority - of8 t to 21, that they have not ".lost any ground in t?'--.VV'y' i tfce'present Congresst and the result of the election i.. v&izt- r mrni'Ders of Congres&j: proves, that altho' they ' . ''..V;'' .7 have lost some votes in the Eastern suites, that they till have a great majority out of the whole Dumber 'f f the iftext.;i?n;resa. l-- ' ,t Pt&W'jqZ', For these reasons I conclude that the govern-. , ' . went party could earjy along with then ,the up port of. the .people in. the measures which they ' ' .in'Sht resolve to take,', and I have already explain- wi h O.e colonies of beH'irenta ta. time of war Uled i the opiaiooions of mo people, and I cor.- whiiJj was not allowad in time of peac afid trust t.r. too;; permitted by the r rroch to carry on such trade in Dee to a to entitle them to a canii- Duance of rtln time t f wat'i i . V- ' In th A manner h observed all the joints ofdif- ferences between i) real. JBriuin and the United States rrueht bo smoothed awy (was his ex presaion) nd that the United States would be willing a put tne miercourse wun ureal unuui uoon pcneci f jodng of reciprocity, and would either '-consent to the arrangement that the ships ofboth nations should pay the same duties redptocally or place each O ther -simply upon the footing el the most favoured nation. . .- .'(:'"," J ''- .. 1 have no doubt thai these communications were made with a sincere desire that they .ought produce the effect of conciliation, because it is well known that Mr. Gallatin hat long thought that the restric tive and jealous system of non4mportadon laws, ex tra duties, and other modes of checking a free trade with Great Britain Kave been errwneous and highly injurious to the interests of America i he informed me, distinctly, that he had always entertained that opinion, and that he had uniformly endeavoured to Esrsiiade the president to place the' conduct of G. ritaiii and France towards the United ' States in a fdr light before the public tie seemed .to .check himself at the moment he was speaking aipqn that subject, and I could not get him to express himself more distinctly, but 1 could clearly collect trom the manner, and from some slight insinuations, that he thought the President had acted with parthtUty to wards trance, tor he turned the conversation immediately upon the character of Mr. - Madison, and said that he could not be accused of haviu? such a bias to Wards' France ; and remarked that Mr Ma dison was known to be an admirer of the British constitution, to be generally well disposed . towards the nation! and to be entirely tree from any enmity to its general prosperity. He appealed to me, whe the? 1 had no observes that he frequently, spoke with approbation of its institutions, its energy b spi- l rit, and that he was thoroughly well versed in its hr- toiT, literature and arts. . . .J , . :.. .. . Tncse observations he made at that time for the purpose of contrasting the sentiments of Mr. Madi son with those of the President, as he knew that I must have observed that Mr. Jefferson never spoke with approbation; of any . thing that was1 . Bri tish and always took up French topics in his conver sation, and always praised the people and country of France, and hever lost an opportunity of shewing his"dislike to Great Britain. ... ,r At the close of my interview with Mr. Gajlatin, he said in a tamutar way, M You see. sir, we could 'PS ftavJct which I have described in the forefeoine Dart l-A;r-'i this di-patch, ari'sing otlt bf the state of the coun- .try and their owiv particular situation, and I ;M; Great Britain to enable them to extricate the count ceive tr.it the only reason whr taeruucrjny wish I; to ks) continued arises from a hot, ttun time mijrht aSord them an opportunity of better j j Jing of the probable Issue of events in Europe, panic uUrty of the success or. uDure of Bonaparte n Spain. - -m - i , . , ' . ' . . ' It may be doubted whether the privations and in conveniences produced by lhe Embargo in this country, will not compel the Congress to take some hostile measures, in order to have a pretext fur its removal of so trifling a nature, however, as to lore it to the belligerents to overlook them, if they please, and to save the ruling party from tRe necessity of going into war measures of great expence and dan ger not only to their own popularity and power, bat perhaps, even to the safety of the union. ' I propose to have the honour of offering some remarks upon this subject in the next number of my dispatches. , v - , . - , '.", ', . W(uhington March 1809- : " Si a Since the arrival in the Delaware river on the I Oth instant of the American dispatch vessel the Union frwm England and France, I have had an interview with the President (Mr. Madiaon) and the Secretary of State (Mr Robe SmitM who ex pressed their sentiments to me very freely relative to the intelligence which was brought by that ves sel. , . . The President observed that the alteration in Us majesty's Orders in Council by the recent Order which had been communicated by you to Mr. Pink ney, suspending ." the operation of the acts as to any duties on exportation granted by the said acts as f r as relates to Articles being the growth, produce, or manufacture of any country being in amity w'uh his nujeetyy fcc. did not in fact remote the objections entertained by the United States against the orders in council in. any degree worthy of notice. That they still violated the neutral rights of this country, as they made it necessary for American ships to pass through England, which was not only an in fringement of the independence of the United States, but was completely destructive of their commerce, since the American vessels were prohibited from going to the continent after they had been forced to touch in England. . . He remarked also upon the circumstance of Rus sia and Denmark being comprehended in the ope ration .of the orders in council, which he said was assuming a new principle, as. the orders had been hitherto rested wpon the ground of a right of re taliation wliereas Russia and Denmark have n6ver issued any. decree; violating neutral rights. He complained se verely of this, and went over the same arguments, upon, these points which he had made respective countries. L I have taken the liberty of detailing to you the substance of this. unofficial conversation with Mr. Galhttin, in order to explain to you the grounds up on which 1 bare, formed ;my opution that the mem bers ef the present government who it is expected will belong also td' the next, would be desirous of j settling the dulcrences of the United States with try aud themselves from the cufficulties in which they ore involved i for it is now,! believe deter mined that Mr. Uillatin will accept his present of- therefore preceed to explldn rirv tilt ate reasons for vi-- J .feeling ceufirmed !n their opinions and will have 1: ? me Dy some fice der Mr. .Madison, which was at one urrie , tfiheme douhted. The character of Mr. Gallatin must be ut J"ire V Vr??i & ,welKknown to you, to be held in the greatest respect v s. i ssavb sAnuys4 vsHivuHtuvu riitui vitcai i .i iC.iv Uteembtr ith. IfiOfl. V.fn the, course o several private Interviews which; ;.?;VI.'T."J had with Mr. Gallatin the Secretary of the Trea- ; vj -suryV Mr, Smith, Secretary, of the ayyI have col-' , Jectedfromthem that their sentiments foincWe Icvith: SwiVhose of .Mr. R lis. whiclt' I'have detailed at 'Home 'length In the precediog ntjmber ,6f my dis ' .'ii patches, reapecting the proper course of conduct i ifct . 'wliich ought to be pursued bythe United States, in V' , their present siftiattoh, ftlthough they bad differed "' $ ' A U tri vltJk TVPAr.lMft f luwin'm -m 1.a vkrlV'rtA am n ' V ',' measure of defencef arid had thought that it would ::-j:!'Ntaye been better to have resorted td measures of, a h?'i4 ."v roore decided nature at first, but that now they liad '..iiM ) no other means left, tut to continue it for a short king place m the Conduct of the belligerents towards ' the United SutesJ to endeavour to assert their righta against both power$ i but that if either should relax in thciressions,' they sa)d they would Vote for iv faking part with that one against tlrff other Which j.v;- ihoitld continue its eggtessiontv -Vf .''';' 4 '.'; -$, (j, Mr. Gallatin remarked to me, jhat the resolutions wnicn were prpnoseo oy, me committee ot f oreign V Relation's In their repor to the House of Represent I tatives, and which had already "passed in theTcom- wittef Ithewhpl House, and would perhaps soon ; $:''r?i-:&Jfo& into law, seemed to him to remove two very- J, important grquiiGsor diuersoce.wim urcat Britain, '' ;:;via.;the oab-impxinatlLAi aCtj "applicable to her a- ships of Great Briuiri were excluded from the ports i ' ?. of the United States white , those of -France were permitted io enter; but now, by the non-tatercburse :i v ': law both powers were placed on the same, footinor i ; Xi "t h'e did not pretend to say that this njeasure had been. , jVrijvS s ivom any motives ,pt concesssion to jtiieat Britain j ' ; ' Swt as in fact those consequences followed.'vhe Ycon ' ; ceived they might btf"considerdd as removing ; the ; t wo great obstacles to a tbncluation.l This he wish y; ed'might be tlus case-; as he intimated to me' that ls-waeh stepi were about to be takenhy Congress" tip '"itf on anothte very important subject ot the differences ? '-i'i-'betweeti the two countries, as" might have a further ! ' . . e.fftfct ii leading to favourable adjustment 6f them, rtv ts II 6 informed me, that a law was about to be prenos- .t "fi'v-i to Cong-ess, and which he believed would; pass; - le'' ?. ?Vto interdict all American vessels fronv receivint? on Jfi'-i!$. ' "" board any fo'reien seamen." under"? heavv nenahiea X&'ii'&'s er forfcituVesj and that already the ships of war of ; rien'and to discharge siich as' Werrf at. that time on i'J'i'Z board. -This subject is alsrf alluded toby Mr. Giles, ' ' the senator, in his speech, who is high m the coto 'k' i)0xRfilence of the govcrflraent, 8c it is said, is to be Mr : i . ; MacUson's Secretary of StateA MiV.Gallatin also , said, that he knew that it was intended by the Uni : ;"r . f., ted States te abandon the attempt to carry on a trade in thicountry for his unrivalleJ talents as a finan cier and as a statesman, .. There cannot I think be any reasonable doubt entertained that he is heartily opposed to . French aggrandizement, and to the j usurpations of, Bonaparte.; He was an enthusiast; in favour of the French revolution, in the early pe riod ot it, but has long since abandoned the favour able opinion he had entertained respecting it, and has viewed the progress of f ranee towards univer sal dominion withjealousy and regret , , . ' J How far the good will of this government and country towards Great Briuin may be; worth, in the estimation ot his Majesty s government, the sacri fice of the orders in council and of the impression which they might be expected to make on France, it would be presumptuous in me to venture to cal culate, but I am thoropghjy persuaded that at '-that price it, might be obtained; , ,y, ; l".y I I have endeavoured, by the most s'trict' and dili gent' enquiries into the views and strength of the federal party to ascertain to what extent they would be willing and able to resist 'the measures of the party in power, and how far they could carry the opinions of this country along- with thern Hn their attempts to remove the embargo, without recurring iiusuuucs uauisi Hum vtreai pnuin anu rrance. t Uporf a mature consideration of this subiect I am persuaded that great as' the desire is which trene- rany prevails iot me removal oi tne ' emoargo, that the federalists would not venture to recommend that it should be withdrawn, without proposing some measures ot greater energy as a substitute, borne have indeed hinted at the propnetv of at once de claring -War - against France $ but. few; however, of uiuso who iirt uccu luoBi cianiorous eciunsi ine Embargo, have yet offered their opinions as to what course ought to be. pursued, although all have de clared against the submission to the restrictions up on their, neutral rights' -' When, the small number of those who" have pointed Out - the propriety of going to war with Ff ance, atone,' is considered, ' even . of the federal party, I Cannot believe that such a measure would succeed,:... :; ?.y -V- tJ',-;t ,. AU the leaders pf the democratic party in Con gress and out of It, declare thai they only propose the Continuance of the tmbargb for 8 ' short ume', and that ff theVoice. oV the people at large is fof more active resistance, that they shall be wuuog and ready to put forth the strength of the countr for that purpose. ; 4 These declarations are to be I found ir) the speeches, some printed copies bf which nave sent nerewiin ; you wiu ana, nowever, tnai in some oi uiem a great stress is suii laid upon the euectf to be expected Irom the embargo hv-toerc ing the belligerents, particularly Great Britain, to relax in her restrictions, Irom the distress and in convenietice which is likely to" be produted by the want of the produce of this country. ,'? r' ? Tj Thirreliance upon' kuch' consequences from the C4nbargo ;a greatly, indeed almost enur '.jp'xh, ssalso tny Not. It it ramed to En p1 and Hi tbe America , s-rl PaciSc.'ehich wL3 sail from hvr.ct i settle a treaty in my private room in two hours, Ue of wliile le was Secretary of Stale, and seemed which might perhaps be - found to be as lasting as; to be greatly disappointed and vexed that n6 change if.it was bound up in all the formalities of a regular! in the relations of the United States' with the belli system ; and mighty be ound as reciprocally useful i gerents seemed likely to take place before the meet as a treaty consisting "of twenty-four articles, m.ingof the new Congress in May next,' as he fore which the intricate points of intercourse might be: sees the serious difficulties and embarrassments in in vain attempted to be reconciled to the opposite,' which the United States will be then involved it and perhaps, jealous .views of self-interest of the determining upon the course of conduct which it wilt be expedient te pursue, as it is universally thought that the non-intercourse law cannot last lon ger than the next session of Congress,' and it will become nesessary at thut time either to abandon all idea of resistance, or to 'determine to adopt mea sures of hostility against both belligerents, which could not be carried in the last Congress and there fore are still 'less , likely to be adopted in the new, which will consist of a larger number of members averse to such a desperate and unavailing course. The Secretary of State (Mr. Robert Smith) re peated the sentiments which he had often express ed to mewhen Secretary of the ' Navy, of regret that his majesty's government seemed not to be lieve that the United States would resist the de crees'? France, - lie thinks the correspondence between the American minister at Paris (General Armstrong) and the tjrench government, prove the determination of tthiir. government, not to sub mit to them".; He declared to me also that be known that war would have been instantly declared against r ranee, upou Ureat Britain s relaxing her orders, which he said were issued before the United States had an opportunity of ascertaining the illegal inter pretation which France meanPto put upoa her de crees; he added, that he was convinced that even now measures of actual hostility would be adopted against France, without hesitation, should Great Sritain relax In her orders so as to afford the United Statesman opportunity of doing so with honour ; but that it would be impossible that they should single v k i .. n . n ... oui r ranee an uppuncui, wmic vn cui omarn, con trary to her own declarations, enforced her orders Lbefore any acquiescence on the part Of the United States in the 1 rench decreet had been proved. lie acknowledged that it .might be difficult to bring on a state of actual hostility between this coun try and Great Britain upon the grounds of any sub sisting differences, but that he was desirous that ari amicable understanding should prevail. between the two countries, which the present state of their rela tions would enurely prevent - - He added, that he was atraid the irritations which were likely to be produced by.captuve under his majesty's orders in council might .Jead to serious consequences, which he said he .should deprecate, as ne was unwilling to see tne united states thrown ntu an auiance ,wmcn netnougni already too pow- ;rfulfbr.the , interests -or th world, lie did not pretend to entertaiu any partiality towards England, but considered that the interest of the U. States was the same at the present-moment with that of Great Britain. f ' - -' ' - These sentiments, as expressed to me by Mr, Robert Smith are, I believe, very sincere. I have been much acquainted with him, and cannot ! think be mistaken m the opinion which I. have formed ot his disposition and leeungs upon that subject v . . . t . r ' . i tr- . . i. -. uoin uie rrcsiunu ana secrtiarv ot state are. l understand, anuc4; offended at the appointment of adimrar Berklev to a high command, pending the serious complaint preferred against him bjMhc U. States i they have not mentioned the subiect to roci as no authentic, account cf the fact has been yet Tc- ceiveo ; out i expect to near strong representations upon the subject, should it prove to be well founded. : as l have already nad the honor to convey to you my sentiments upon the subject of the non-inter course law, in several preceding numbers of m dispatches, as also upon the -general aspect of a! fairs in this country, l will not trouble you with any further renwrks, but beg'' leave to refer vou to the enclosed extract from my No.-12. which was "sail mhis majesty's packet with the mail of last month ve imti tin rarwcuijtr, LaCUL Ked ! aik'.U; , k1 if iin? at the unit time to France, ri;h c sentr and dispatches. Mr. Cvlet, the priT-, creu7 of the Late President, it to be the bcirt tbecw ' ' . . ,'.- r. a'.C O110 referred to bititaWe); Xt the ruling prt perceive that it mi S hrtheir power to carry the Eastern autetalofijvri them lo a w.- with Great Briuin, ou the grwrnJi a any subustin,,' .'..Terences between thetwocouotricj, tliey hope tlu; the frequent captures of the tv' belonging to the. Eastern states, which are u Uke place in consequence of hit majesty's orders ia. council continuing in operation; may excite irrk Ution ia the minds of the people of tho states, lead there to Uke a part m the next Congress m u T measures which might be pointed against Gret La tain. .... v I continue to be firmly persuaded that Mr. 11 dison, who has now been pronounced to be the Btxt President, would most willingly seise the first op. ponunity of recommending to the next Congrento assert the neutri rights against France, shoura 1 j rnajesty drtnj It to be" jtlst or expedient to caw his order! in council to be withdt awn in con sequent bf determination being evhiced b the United Suipi not to submit to the aggressions of France. And I conceive that h is' not at Tall improbable that tie might authorise Mr. Pinkpey to make a comniuiu. cation to vou to that effect, as he has frequently in conversation said to me, that no hesitation would be felt in this country of "entering, upon hostilities wun. c ranee, u no aw not recai ncr aecreess, but he always added, that it was impossible the United States could fike such a step while his majestw'i - Orders 'were in force, becavlse their hmihcatioa could only be attempted upon the grounds that the United States hud. acquiesced tn the decrees of France, which he uniformly contends has never been the case.'- Y-' -j r"? -':.-' It U evident to m that he will be: supported in this sentiment by his own py in,Ccngress, and ia the country generally so tar as to prevent his lee ling himseu compelled to single out f ranee as an t-ene-mv. while hi maiestv's orders in comicil cmiiL-i,- ed in force i but I am perfectly confident flat it ' would be impossible that they could bring on a war with Enfjtund, unless it should be occasioned, n I ' g have before mentioned, by an irritatton produced ia 1 the minds of the people of the Eastero states, bv ' I the losses which might be sustained by them in their i ships and commerce by captures under bis tnajes 1 3 tv's orders. 1 lie weight and Influence of the- Eastern states has been sufficient to force the ruling party to aban don their favourite system of the rmbarco, and that too without the u panful alternative' of President Jeftvtson of war beingf substituted; j but I doubt ei- tremely how far they could; compel the Congress und President into a war with- France, unless . the United States could be called upon to assert its Wu- tral rights by the temporary ' removal of hit Kb fi om the is it contaiiis my opinion upon those topics -which j great quantity bt gc iv&ly djmin- ati .tinchanged. ',-'.:; ' i.."r; i v; -'Vlsubjectfcouid notii csty's orders in council to ,ive them tliat oppoV ! . it iniwon hv tTiin rraulf nf the stntA M tV vntM r for tlie President and V jce President which wasde cUred ia the Senate yesterday,- that Mr.- Madisoa nad 123 votes out of ,175, and that all theTotes, ex cept three ;n the Southern and Western states were in his favour, besides Pennsylraiua J and that two tlvirds-of the votes of the state of New-York were given to him. He hfid also all the votes" of Ver mont, but that was in consequence of the votes be ing given by the legislature of that state, which hap- ' penea to oe aemocrauc , oesuies naving nine duv twelve votes ot the state ot Maiyland. '.jL-yu This vast majority would' enable- the President elect and his party to resist1" the solicitatioh' of the ' r . .... -. . i . 1 .. J - ' . I . ... toux eastern states, snoutu iney .urge me next von? grcss to single out France as an enemf , because the sarjoe power which has proved incdmpetent .to en- r '"' .. . ' . i . : ' 1 lorce.an illegal, oppressive uuu ruuiuns ww, v,v, i still be suftkient t& withstand a requisition to wa;;. a war, which, however just, would not be likely w be attended with any profit or Myantage.;jvj i 4 , C It is true thai a non-intercourse law may be con sidered by the eastern states as very . objectionable, but as it would be rather a nominal prohibition than a rigorous enforcement! a resistance to it" - Wpuld be less likely to be madeji and of less importance if it . should take placed. , , js-, WtJMK 1 ne,uuunate consequences 01 sucn anicrcnccs , and jealousies ; ef'vsing between the ' Eastern and Southern States, would inevitably tend to a dissolu tion of t' union, which has been for some time talk ed of, and has of late, as I have heard, been serious- , ly contemplated by many of the . leading people in the Eastern division. ' " ' - - - " - - - 1 -' I will not however trouble you with any observa- tioiw upon that important topic- at present, but con- fine myself to the ccr.sequerices'of the measures a- v bout to be adopted in Congress, affecting hismajei-; - ty s interest :. -- v -1 , v t V hateyer rnay.be the motives ot . the , congress . for the nassinsr a non-intercourse law with England and France, I conceive that great advantages pwy . be reaped from it by England, as She has the, com-. . mand of the. seas, and can procure, through neutrals' . any of the produce o? this country besides the ' hn-' 4 mense quanuty which wjll be brought direct to w., ( Britain, under various pretences j whereas f ranco, will obtain but little, at a ' treat expence and 'n&t:'; nd wilt only get that little in , consequence of ths high prices in their markets.'' v-'- ? v This measure will operate in so partial and dis, couragin a manner upon the eastern states, which , , are commercial, that it would not, be submitted to. very long, and its effects in pre venting the .in,tr0;. duction of Britisii manufactures would be trifling, as they would be smuggled into the country :: iuV.,. the greatest facility; since .tho people - who alontf could interfere with effect, would encourage such a traffic between his majesty's dominions ir Canada, and the adjacent territories of the U. S, andii vw h . Ous otherwys'Vli- vsl 'w'V ' ; Another advantage "arising to G '..B. from the non- 1 intercourse law would be, that the )nterdictioti ofj f ships ofwat-from entering tlie ports of the U. Stat' would be general, instead of being directed solely; a gainst his , Majesty's tship. .The non-import law .would bo "also, neral, and tlie coiisti-j' would be, that bis maiestv's subjects ; would goods into the U. S. but i - introduce any. t
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