. , '.' v. ..
a' , . --. " -I-
t- t
RALEIGH, (N, c.yFiiiDiLy, ArniL , 1824,'
No.
- s
TOR star, ; ;
, Jti Xurtk-Carolina Gaxrt U,
. . y.' reViso'. weekly, hy
BELL k LAWRENCE.
. ... " k
RiWsrtstlon, thr Mitt
'' fer i k ( itl at UM glMli pU
Jv,sn4 ssrlsootin4, ki t
tM p(HMof iha RiiiortaSaltMitl rrre
AN IcHen to ikt Milter vuti p-pW
CONGRESS.
From the WMhingtoa Bepubbca.
- senate'-- --
' Thurt lay, Monk 18. ,
Xkiate M the meniment u the CmtMtvtitn,
On motion of Mr. Ifarnt, the ceventl reo
. lutioM propotinf mcnmirU to th Contti
rcUtloa to the election of President
nH vice PreMdent. were Utcn up.
, Mr. BAKBOUB fM called to the Chair.
. Mr. MILLS moved the indefinite postpone-
"nent of all further coniuderation of the subject
.... Alter some icw.preuim ivuiw vj
' fihf members.
Mr. KiNG, of New-York, spoke in favor of
the motion to postpone. The reporter was
then, as he has always been during the pre-
'- sent session, unaMe to hear the remarks of
this gentleman with sufficient distinctness to
report them fully snd accurately. Mr. K.
m understood as being opposed to any
amendment of the Constitution, upon the
point proposed by these resolutions. He was
in furor of retaining, in the hands of the small
States, the power which they possess in the
election ot President, when that election re
mits to the House of Representatives, He
considered that power as congenial to the fe
derative character ot our government, and as
having been the fruit of that happy spirit
. concession, which led to the formation and
adoption of our present constitution. He
, eld this right to be as sacred a part of the
constitution, and as consonant with the genius
f our government, as that of the small States
to a representation in the "-Senate equal to
that of the large States. , He thought the si
tuation of the county, at this' time, did not in
' . rite such a change of the constitution as wis
- proposed by these amendments;' and that, if
nsde, it might prove to be a dangerous inno-
.1. . l" 'i r
Mr. R. then proceeded, as we understood
him, to advert to a power which he consider
:' 1 du foreboding far more dangerous to this
, country than that of the election of President,
in the constitutional form, by the House of
1 Bepresentatives a" treat central power.
i -nrhich might avail itself of all the means of I respective states into Districts, for the choice
v s party spirit, of intrigue, and corruption, to ef-J of Electors, and authorizing their selection
feet its purposes. He alluded td the prac-
cots ecssary. . It would, he thought. 1
injustice, as well to bis rntitoenta as to htm
cK to safler tn new view which had bee
takew of Um subject by hi honorable' eL
IraitM, to pass knoticcd. la diachargiag the
doty Jh us imposed upoo hips, he would sot id
crease the etcitemeat which had beeamam
(estrd bv givirg any Jatitud to the discus.
man which the occasion did not eaB for. . No
portiew of th time of the Senate would be
occupied by him, ta discussing the constitu.
tiooaiity of aCoemasiorjal Caucusi nor ia
conaideririr any of those nice distinctions
which challenged respect for the proceed
ings f Conveotions of one deaoripUon, and
denied it to otherss . nor in detecting those
till snore subtle refDemeoU which regarded
Dieting of the same character as sometimes
proper, and other destructive of the puritv
of elections, and dangerous to the liberties of
the people. He could not satisfy himself that
thia was either the place or the occasion for
discuasious of that character. But, whilst he
abstained from following his colleague in the
remarks having ' reference to this subject,
which he had allowed himself to Tsake, Mr.
V. B. hoped that he would not be understood
as wishing to raise a question as to the pro
priety of the court which his colleague
thought proper to pursue. It would not be
come him to do so. The principal ground
taken for the postponement of the resolution,
on former occasion, related to the excite
ment produced by the approaching election,
and the aupesiar fitness of a future period for
the consideration of the subject This ground
had now been much enlarged. It had been
observed by an honorable member from
North-Carolina, in opposition to the motion,
that the necessity of some amendment of the
Constitution, in this respect, was generally
admitted, and had been extensively called for
by the people. Mr. V. B. understood his
colleague not only to deny the fact alleged,
as to the state of public opinion, but to con
test the propriety of any amendment of the
Constitution on the subject of the choice of
resident ana vice President. It was on
these two points he would make a few re
marks. It could not, he thought, he neces
sary, and might not be proper,' to detain the
Senate by a minute statement of the various
proceedings of Congress, and of the states.
on the subject A very brief reference to
them would shew that the gentleman from
North-Carolina was supported by facts in the
opinion ne had expressed. Mr. V. B. believ
ed that, on examination, it would be found
that th first movement on the subject had
befen made by the state he had the honor, in
part, to represent. It was now twentv-two
years since the Legislature of New-York,
Bhortly after an election, and under circum
stances entirely disconnectintr the measure
with any pending controversy, had, with
great unanimity, passed resolutions in favor
of an amendment of the Constitution of the
United States, requiring the division of the
"' tree of nominating candidates for the first
mce in the nation, hy Congressional cau
'V.tusea..&c '
VVUt. SMITFI, of Maryland, was in favour of
; .'ome amendment ot the constitution, in order
"M caiauiuiu mil viuiviiu IUUUC VI ClcCang Uie I
. Presidents and the resolutions now before the
Senate would only go to produce that effect i
; tie considered it to be the true meaning and
intent of the constitution, that the election
should be made-in some uniform mode, I
, throughout the States! and if it were so; the
choice would not frequently come into the
.House of Representatives. If the present
provisions of tho constitution were suffered
s to remain, he did not see How we could ever
; have a President and Vice-President elected
by the people. Such an wfent yould be
v morally impossible He believed it was in !
'the spirit of the constitution that the Presi
V dent should be elected by the people of the
? United States.. Nov, if an amendment was
proposed, wjkich wou! increase the proba
, ' bility of, an 'election according to the true
SJUntof thai iratnimpnt w4 al,m,M U nnt
he adopted? In tlibae. States In whirh th
'If choice of electors is made by the legislature,
una oeen reoeaxea . nmnnrntinna tn
immediately hy the people. Those resolu
tions were communicated to Congress, and
would dc round on the Journals of the Se
nate; since that, the subject had been acted
upon, at various periods, and in different
forms, as well by Congress as by the Legisla
tures of the different States. Of the pro
ceedings of the latter, those of North-Caro
lina ana New Jersey have been the most
conspicuous. ' The Legislature of North
Carolina passed resolutions nearly similar to
those of New-York, and sent them to the dif
ferent States for concurrence. New-York in
structed her Senators, and requested her Re
pfesentatives, to endeavor to obtain the
amendment proposed by North-Carolina, and
many of the states gave similar instructions.
At least three times within eleven years, and
as late as the years 1822, resolutions propo
sing amendments td the Constitution upon
the subject of the election of President and
Vice president, have passed this body, by
more tiian the Constitutional majority, and
there had been few sessions for several years,
in which the subject had not been mote or
less acted upon. Early In the present ses
sion, resolutions, foe' amendment had been
proposed by Senators from Missouri, New
South Carolina, Massachusetts, and
Jeraev.
A aange the mode of election, on the spur of f New-York. Their respective propositions
j, .-the- occasion, to favour the views of parti- had been referred to s; committee, combining
''caiaidtea. Changes of this kind, Mr. much of the talent and experience ot the i t e
' 'ueved, had byn proposed in Virginia, nate, of which his colleague wat member.
, m Ncw-Yorki m order v to "affect their The subject had been considered with care,
i01!11; In Ncw-York, the members of and. a plan reported, containing,, as the com-
he legislature. had been subjected to scorn mlttee thought, the best parts of the resold
, and contempt, for nol kltering ihe mode of tionsreferred to them. In that report, he
VIU S"00"1? electors, to meet a certain exigency; understood the committee iwere unanimous
-' fj lie had been a member of that
' ; oody, he certainly shoidd not have voted f or
H 'hange, under -such circumstances.
e luougut the mode f ejection, whatever
mink, U t . . ., .
f V. 7 6 "U6a; ocr uouorm on each
' 9tate, and throus-hnnt tht- llninnj ' ,.-
i TnTesolution proposed by the gentle-!
, ,m Missouri, had been taken ip, and
(f uj, uicusseaand, Mr. S. said, he did not
, flOW Why it should not be further consider.
V, " i" Pe had, never listened with Wore plea-
V "tjian. fo the ariurnenhi of that gentle-
.ift anpport of the plan he tad proposedi
. W u oUier memhers. had intimate their
i-Vmu to reply to those Uvummh. t: Hmith
M willing they should have the oriportuni.
y to0 Vhen the speech of the mem-
it
-1 V 10
f wrfxora taiasouricame to be' printed, i
r probably wqyld be, and as it richly deserve!
... I .oe, ne wished to see fte srgutoent of those
no were opposed to that eentleman'J plan
; tA pnte-tht the; public might see,,and
I Judge, of the reasons urged in 1 upp6rt 4
V ttfrttSE of hblding cucojleto
' v.",, 1C,B genUenian . from NeW-York had tlseime f tlie Senate "m discussions,
. i ?. long-existed in this country, might te rendered worse than useless, hy, tho
k noneM'hingue'ei It bad been adopted postponement of the aubject, but his honor
' "V!zF$ mjmJr iFrtnt'econt-4-had able colteague had taken one View of -the
"' " rje"raany good WecU.' Mf. S.'
' ' tmT Awt emb wasagreednportin
" S . H tight t theexer.
ens of hi own opinions dnA txnnrtUi
' S'-- " eohsidered
We present nuirtinttk. .v-
w ti- - MS "won ic propne
'J W Jk tmiform mode of elect.
' th'm .7 - uiienuon 10 add any
In.mg to the remarks h hA L.r v
i,;.?. moVOTnow cf iconsideralstateVndh exercise f this power.
add appearances certainly indicated the a
doption of sbme resolution on the subject at
the. present session. Such were" his impres
sions, and he thought that such had been the
opinions of the members of the Senate gene
rilly.' "in view of the facts he, had stated, he
could, neither repress nor conceal his disap
pointment in finding .the motion for postpone
ment now supported, on the ground thano
amendment was aesirea oy uie people.
Mr. Van Bnren said, that although the re
solution he had proposed, had not been whol-
iy adopted oy ine commiixee, anK noiwiui-
standing h4 desired material alterations of that
reported, still, if he should' be- successful . in
his endeavors to obtain the alterations, he
wished, ne would cheerfully vote for the a-
mendment reported by the committee. - He
considered it to be rar preferable, for all con.
cerned, to the existing provisions of the con-
stitUtion. : It would be unwise, he thought to
eiamine the merit of the various plans , pro
posed, beore the senate decided on tne pre
sent jndtiori.'t.He was unwilling to occupy
which
question) 'which Ht ndcred , brief reply ndes
Dnsihle. y If Mr.' Van' Rurcfl had correctly
understood his c6lleague,h had spoken of
( the proposed amendment as an; attempv on
the part bf the large states, to aepnve the
smaller Ststss. in th confederacy, of their e-
oual votes. u the House 01 Representatives,
I in the choice of the Pre sident," on the ground
of itr being a usurpation which tight, to b
I repressed)- ana, thus considering the subject,
I he had enlm t cJ on the circumstance undeT
I ... i . . ' . . ... - r . 1
I which: this right was conceded to the small
onrabioanoo betwee. tk stated of Virginia,
Peansytvania and New-York. Ur.Yan Bu
rea thought it duo to hi constituents, from
their rtUrkw to th qocsbo ia thai forra, and
to himself aJao, as havinr iotroduood of
th resolution,' to dirUi for both, aay
views of th eharacter alhided to. A.refor-
etio to what had taken pUo here, wsht to
dispel th erroneous impresian which had
bees made on the mind of hi colleague.
The first proposition fat an amendment of th
constkuUoA, in this respect, offered at this
came from Missouri, tho youngest.
and, e scent one, or pernio two, jhc small-
eat state in th TOir&fckracyi and th others.
trom New-Jeny, South-Carotins Massachu
setts, and New-York, in the order in which
he had named the.- state. The propositions
from New Jersey and South-Carolina, yielded
th principle of giving to each state an equal
vote, on receiving what they regarded as an
equivalent. Thai equivalent Consisted in the
division o the large stated Into districts, to
which, bv the aunrestion of the arentlemen
from South-Carohna, was added the propo
sitions, which could not but piore conserva
tive ot th interests of all, the removal of the
decision from the House of Representatives
The principal difference betweeu the plan he
had the honor to propose, and those of which
he had last spoken, was, that instead-of deci
ding for the ultimate decision of the ques
tion by the House of Represen'atives. as was
done in that of the gentleman from NewVer.
sey, be proposed a second lelerence to the e
lectors; and instead of sending it back as often
as it might be necessary to a choice, as propo.
sed by the gentleman from South-Carolina,
u van Hurens's plan compelled a choice on
the second ballot by the electors; a majority
of the committee, to which the several propo
sitions had been referred, were from small
states, and they had agreed on an amendment
founded on principles of reciprocal conces
sions for the general good. This was all that
the representatives of the large states had, as
he understood them, contended for. They
couM not ought not did not desire that the
small states should surrender any portion of
i , . .
uic puwer ana innuence now secured to tnem
by the constitution, unless these states should
themselves think that their ' own condition
would be improved, and the general welfare
promoted, oy tneir . doing so, on receiving
concessions, tuuy equivalent trom the large
states. Considerations of such liberal and
equitable character had been held out od
both sides, and the conflicting interests of the
different states, on this point, arising from
their unfortunate inequality, bad hitherto, to
the honor of the Senate, been commented
upon without the least acrimony, and under
the control of feelings which, promised the
most auspiciocs lesuiu,- sir. Van Buren said
that nothing had taken place to change hid
views or disposition on tne subject He wad
anxious to continue the discussion, and was
willing to lend his feeble efforts to obtain the
adoption of some resolution od the subject,
at this session, t o uus ena, ne was ready,
on the part of his constituents, to make all
reasonableacrifices. If, however, gentle,
men thought that thejiext session would be
a more propitious lftriod, and the character
of the debate.'on-tnis motion, certainly affor
ded some reason to believe that it might be
so, he would bow respectfully to the will of
the majority. Until, however, that was ex
pressed, he would continue to oppose the
postponement
Mr. D1CKER80N, of New-Jersey, said, the
convention wh formed our constitution
could not have foreseen all the effects of its
operation -powers have resulted from it that
were not anticipated the relative strength
of the states has undergone a change, which
has disturbed the checks and balances of the
constitution.. The honorable gentleman from
Missouri, (Mr. Benton,) has shown the evils
of the present system of electing a President
and the necessity of districting the states for
that purpose, in the strongest point , of view.
The election of a President by the people at
,j l - c t, i r . .
targe wouiu ue a preierauie inuue, 11 u were
practicable; but, whoever will loot at the
situation of our country, with its different
kinds of population; different modes of elec
tion; dinerent qualifications ot voters, must at
once perceive that such an election is utterly
impracticable. The choosing of the Presu
dential electors, in single districts, is the near
est possible approach to an. election, by the
people at large.
A disproportion has grown out ot the rela
tive powers of the great and small states.
which the members of the conventioncould
not have foreseen, and which ha given a new
character to our system.
In an election by the electors, sx great
states can control the election; and leave
eighteen states without power or influence
upon the question. In the House of Repre
sentatives, thirteen small states, with forty-five
representatives, can elect a f resident without
the residue ot the states, with io represen
tatives. Why should the great states be all
powerful in the first case, and the small states
m the latter. The gentleman from New-York
(Mi . Eing) is willing to put the small states
on an equality with the largeK Is he -'mi
This is very strange. ' But it is only in cboos-
mg a President in the House ot Represents.
tives, which can rarely occur. But IS he wil-
linir to trivt this equality of vote, on the" first
, . f ti : I . . ...t -T. -a
lection oi rrcwucui, wuku- must occur
every fisur years? No. . New-York, Pennsylva
nia. Virginia, ,North-;aroiina, Kentucky,' and
Ohio, have 133 electors; and can control pie
election oi rrewuein. due luaiunuea. in
each of these states, can control the fjhion, up
on this question, These states are of contig
uous territory, and may easily have a commu
nity of interest that shall Bind them together,
at least upon one question. 1 he eentleman
from Missouri says, that the power -exorcised
by th Ifislatnres of th statcS, to appoint
elector, is an usurDauun- uiui. iv ouinii ro
be -relinqutslied wiuout any concession of
power en the part or the smsu state. Call
this powerby what name you please, it is now
a nermament power; only to oe reached by
an amendment of the constitution; ; However
incorrect the construction of ths, constitution
might have been,', and wa when this power
was first assumed,' it had been acquiesced in
for more than thirty years. To reject the e
lectors! vote thus given at this time, would
be to dissolve the union, at is too late to op
But the
choose
to turn by th reaOrsaaa from New Jcrsew !
VY nWttood him to av. thatulthouHi hd '.'
had formerly boesi fvoraK to soca amend- , .'
nt of tk CooatHutioe. m rtrud t thd . ; . .
election C fresideBt. yet hi mteaOoa had -bee
stMBd powerfWIry attracted by 4 pot - , '
which. had ainco ride up, which appeared to .
bin 0 terrific, that be hardly dared to eov , f ' ,
template, tho rect it might produce hd
meant the powt r which members of Centred -
had assumed, pf nooiiaatihga President of thd ; , '
united si aura, n vu placing th complete: . ' .
control ofth rvermuentbthotiandaof . .'..
party Utfwly. betiTed that tho ot v...-.'. .
thus' assumed, woula, if permitted to he es V- , ;
ercised. oventuajly overwehn th nstrtta : , '
tion. It would produoe a fearful eornbinatiori , S
or ue.iarro atatos. Tac tshaD Mate, hd . '
thought, would Hot consent to go idto Catt - w ' '
cua-rif they aid, it would be uicida act,o , ' ' .
tnew paru iie called upon renUeadn fd ; - r
produce th smallest aathority. ui any. part of . - -tho
Constitul on.r for thea mectinn. Ha ." re
considered them d violatin the spirit of that 5 V
tnairument-v The 'power of ehoosinr tho.i'"
thir etecton Vrewertltickttis adeuiV! reference to tho cWm rt
J - . tr . t . . . ....... ' '
mjw hi cn wcx a precioeiy w aaiaei w
gives ta gtrt states precisely th tun pow
er t control th siectjoa of Presdeat So
far M regard the ciliacna ef th largo Ute
vhero it oaay bo adopted, it ia equally op
pressive to the minovru, and lea ca)culate4
to riv a fair expression of the will of the ma
jorities, lit th state of Naw-York, for Uv
stance, wnh a population of on million and a
half, and a territory of4V0u0 square milts,
id elector ar to ho chuoea by general tick
et; they nrwt be selected from, the different
districts of the state any 6ther arrangement
could not succeed. Thd voters, generally
speaking, would asot know, even by name.
more inaa one or jtwo of tle electors , to be
voted ton for all the rest, thfcv must vote upon
trust. The voter follow th treat man of his
toou he the great man W Ute county and
he some three or four great men of th statei
who thus wield the force of a million and a
half of people. . ? .-,-
If tile lerUUtur choose the electors, thev
have the opportunity of knowing whom they
choose; thy are the frgents in whom -their
constituents confide; they, at least" afford
a connecting link of information between the
people and the electors to be chosen. .
Will the large states rive up this power.
without a corresponding concession on the
part of the small states? , They, will not
Tney are strong, sturdy, and obstinate' They
have- been onred noon this point for twenty
years, but Without effect further efforts are
hopeless. What is the power of the small
state, which it is the wish of the great state
to restrain or mouiiyr . .r
On an election of President, in the House of
Representatives, 31 members, from 13 small
states, can control the election. Is this
safe power, even to the small states them
selves? Should they exercise their ponrer to
the full extent, the first attempt would proba
bly be fatal to their independence. Can they
feel a confidence that they would exercise
their power with discretion? In the moment
of party excitement, when ambition, and all
the fierce passions of anger and resentment
have their sway, discretion is lost sight,, of.
The power is a dangerous one much more
dangerous to the small, states than to the
large. The danger" of dissolvihdr our Union
would create, comparatively, but little alarm
in New-York. What has he to fear? She is
an empire in herself. -But, with New-Jcrsey,
the case is altogether different Without the
constitution, she must cease to be an indepen
dent state. Situated between two potent
neisrHbo'rs, of whose disposition to oonress she
had sufficient evidence, between the close of
the revolutionary war and the formation of
our present constitution, she would be crush
ed. On the dissolution of the Union, real
property, in New Jersey, would instantly fall
so per cent l ne state is so situated, thata
large portion of her commerce must necessh.
rily go through the' ports of New-York; and
Pennsylvania. Thd duties on foreign goods
consumed in New Jersey, would be paid In
New-York and Pennsylvania, and pass into the
treasuries of those states. New Jersey would
be tributary to them. She would resist and
probably inak the city of Jersey, Perth Am
boy and Burlington, free "ports of entry.
This would destroy her whole system of pro
tecting1 the industry ofthe state, and would
lead to acts oi retaliation on tne part of those
state in which her prosperity would be utter
ly destroyed. New Jersey has a stronger in
terest in the constitution than any other state
in the Union. '
It is for this reason, that, in that state, there
s the strongest disposition to provide for the
permanency of the constitution, by Correct
ing the abuses that have grown up under if
more especially the disproportion ot the oowi
er of the great and small state m choosinr
the Chief Magistrate; and the difficulty of
i i . : .i , , I . . .
sucn acnuicc ui uic nouac oi Representatives.
, How the fears of the gentleman from New
York have been allayed, within it few weeks,
i jtnow not; wnue tne aangers tnemseivc
Dave evidently increased,'., :
The dangers of choosing the President in
1801, were such, a to threaten us with disso
lution of our compact. But the difficulties
now to be contended with, in uch an .elec
tion, would be made much greater. Then,
mere were Dut two candidates; the first bal
lot would have resulted tn a choice, if some
President d riven to tho Collet f r.w.
tdri the eiectiqn, In the first instance, k in
their handstand, to prevent the poatbility of
combination, they are chosen only .about thlr.
ty days before-their office is to be performed. '
The -election. is directed to be nrade, hi all tho'
different state, on the same dayi and th E.
lector are, permitted to. make but one at
tempt at a choice. These provisions o tho
Constitution were adopted for the express
purpose of preventing combinatkuia-eo ef.
Vict which Mr. K. thouirht was srrettlv to ha
dreaded, from he practic of nomination, hy .
Congressional Coucuses. . , ' - W :
-Mr.DICKERSON resumed-rhtf intended V
no disrespect to the honorable member from ', ,
New York,, in .imputing to h m a change of s
opinion ort thnf sub j ecu . In" regard ttho
caucus which had been spoken of in this dis
cumion, Mr. T. said, he conceived it was neU
ther forbidden nor enjoined "by the conttitu. "
tion. He considered it as a perfectly harm
hiss expression of .the opinion of those who '
attended it : - Members of Cohrresd had cer- .
tainly a good aright; ih their individual ca.
pacities, to recommend a candidate for thd
Presidency, as any other men. ' Similar meet,
ings have been held in every state; every
county; and in almost every town in the coun '
try. r The same privilege of recommending c
caitflidates is xercised by every printer . ia '
the country ome of them have reoomme nxl.
ed three or .four different candidates ithift ' ;. '
4-
TK,
...
,"ui some, explanation on fcispart had be-1 which they were dipcsed, Cumthe, possibld I powt oa tji partef thd llates, to
',1 ''j, -,' r .r. . , . ;-... .; -, . It, f;f"--i. ' r. ,
steles had not been divided. ' Now, .there
must be . three candidates. The House
of Representatives will be divided between
the three; even the representatives of the
states may be divided between the three,
The confusion might become Inextricable;
Suppose New York were to give 12 votel
to A, 11 to B, and il td C, would this ensure
the vote of New-York for A? J The friends of
B and C would say not Should a plurality,
or majority, govern in such a caief . 8houkl
the State say what was its yote? or should the
House of Representatives, prescribe the rule?
The case it lull ot difficulty and danger.- ,.
This amendment, Mr. XX. said; if it should
be agreed to by the requisite number of both
House ot congress, must he submitted to thd
several state; and, unless three-fourth of
them were in favor of it it could sot be a.
dopted. The hu ge and the small states must
all be consulted, and hd well knew it would
be very difficult to jget any amendment adopt,
ed.-; It Is said that it will take away the right
k .t ' t.. ..1... .1...
the proposition can never take effect Mr,
p. thought the present provision ofthe con
stitution, in respect to the election of Presi
dent, ,wa extreindy wealsiii He was fuHy
convinced that it was1 the unanimous opinion
h ine oia suiica, m some aitenition oumr to
teke place; they hsv earnestly looked for it
they ask it at our hands. Both the small and
the large state will, consent to give op some
thing, for the sake of effecting that object
Neither of them would be willing to "do it
unless an equivalent wa obtained. - Mt U.
feared that the present vsd not the time td
act upon pese. amendments; he thought it
would be necessary to test the constitution.
a it now stands, a httle longer; It would
Uke a long time to get Any amendment
through, and it was thought that the present
was not a fit time for the discussion, In cense.
quence of the excitement' which wvan
throughout xhe country J regard to the en
su'uig election.' ,Tbe gentleman from New
Tor; has cnanged bis mind, respecting the
toronrietv of amendinr the constitution. . -
. J lr.ELlNC of Ncw-Yorkr rose to explain
. ' t :
3
V
result from the caucus nomination it imposed';
upon noooqy 11 otnas nopoay a wiu go tor
w uujK u wuri uiu uu iuotc ii is uie mere
exercise of opinion, and that is a right which, '
...I ii. i. j . . . .
wucuicr ii respemea men or measures, Mr, . ,
u. ut I wouiu ncTcr reiinquisnr, (t is a
right .guarantied by the . constitution and the ;
laws of the country, and one which will be ax-
Mr. HOLMES, of Maine.' next rode. It k to
me (said Mr. H.) matter of reaTet and ait:on.
ishment;.that this 'debate should, have taken A
such turn. 1 had the honor to bey- with the '
gentleman from New-York. (Mr. Kinfr.Yon.
the Committee to whom these ajftdndment to '.' ' V.
the Coastitutloit wer le&tted,-:-1 had. till C
then,; some doubts whether,: t , thi time, -It "
was properto act, upon thero .i But I then ,'
had the, countenance and rapport of that ;
honorable gentleman. I'dfl well I know and ;
appreciated his experience and wisdom; lAd :
he was one of those who framed that instru. '
mem, and knew the views and motive of his
associates, 1 adopted Kimj In some measure,?
id mtt Ulu.Tl.. n..1. -.1.1.1. I..-' -
been the subject of hi animadversions, was .v
agreed eri in eoWutteeawjtlt'.jmsA
ity and by none with mere cordiality and real .
than, by that gentlemarU But though' hi has
seen m to cnange hi onimon, r have1 not
However I may respect him, I canhotm.' '
sent to be ldd about in thi wav. -i. For the.
reasons which he has deemed proper td offer
to the Senate, I, as one, feel mortified and
humbled; 'Never before, oxcent one, and
.t. 1 . . ; 1 .11. . ; l . ,
uiu oy uie same nonoraoio memoer, nas uie . , J - y-' ,
election, which now agitate the public, beeri Xf ".! C
introduced into, out deliberations. vJThi Be- J f ?
nme suouiu ne, ana, unui now, inanK.uoa. , , ,
it has been, above popular excitement, v And
from what niirr.e rlrw it phmc? Whh met '
the pernicious ezample?T One whose age and ; o -v'
experience point mm out as a mooei. v Vf?'
. Sir, t sssure that h6norabfs gentleman; that, ' f
I have no nded of Hi advice, nor will I submit : : V
to the Jiciation'vt aay Senator here to direct' ,.' L-t',''
me in my private or individual conauctrr. , i
Until I shall be drriugned; as thd Constitutibji .t?
prescribes, I shall not condescend td account ' f;. vter;
Hi sny, or sii, uc nicniDm vi wu acnie,.i-. . i
for my acts out of this body, and with wbicbi
a r- Vnssb a'A rts-aas-n - ' t, ''-'J ; . W .
v The first use of the word Cducua, heVei
in debate. I regret to sat, Vsd from -that f&t&t$-f.-l
tleman, He has' beeh pleased td arraigti ,bW:';;f
fore the Senate certlih member of thwand
the other House, because they saw. fit to
meet and rectammi k Candidate to the peo
pie, for President of thd United States. And
by'this act he kffecti 4o" believe that the
yv'"
x'.v.
Constitution had been so violated, tliat .be
would not amend rt at au. i Sir, pan
when I say that true is an Kile dream.'
Sir, pardon ni
i dreamV-' ''
' H eems to apprehend that the' time will"::
come, wheii the President and Head of le- K;
p'artments wiK participate in such a Cohven- f
tion. Sir, there" b no danger of that. f'Whetf
the member or the. Executive Department
shall combine te appoint d wcwwl fpthe
:.U..-V
President the people will but dantm the conW v.';
binationVf No, sirs when these ceottdlndii at.'- '."'w'-1 :
tempt uu, -win not be Ty a puOlie meeting, j,1 : r
Seem engines win be put tt 'opeitioh--rTV U; ; V
vote affent jwill be employed, and mead will r'spr'' 'm i--c'y.
i a puuut uiccunij bus uecn ucur to rccom , :. "
mend td the people to unite; and kp the4 .
election In their own hands. .--At .this,- rthb::f
honorable gentleman takes umbrage and as 'if ;J
mriu no sonucnm. xui measure tn amont - -,
...j. t i. j. .... '.t.. i- -.f "'",'.. rt
kiiu kvdwi mi v-iHiiifB 1 1 1 uc inn riRciinn maw . , ,
bey mada bv, th 1Iaii&i nf ltnriitui;. i '. A't
He see ms t think,' that any meeting, br any V ! ',. 'J :'v.'
cwraimi pi tiuuviauaisio prevent N,kstoocr 7:V. y
feat the provisions of the Constitution! This. , X ,
the Unidraj is very frank, and very disinterest
ed - Kir, it would be humiliating to give th
rpropcf answer to au tnis-e, regard to ma