The North-Carolina Chronicle ; or, Fayetteville Gazett yoL. 1.] MONDAY, May io, 1790. NUMB CONGRESS or the UNITED STATES. HOUSE or REfRESESTATIVES, February 24. A Memorril of Tliomas Barclay was rea3 anS cominiited. A memorial of N. Gore was read and referred to the fecretary at w.;r. A memorial of David 3. Franks was read and laid '■ on the table. Thelionfe refolved itfelf iiitb la committee on the report of the fecretary of the treafury. Mr. Benfon in the ci:-iir. The propofition for the aliumption ol the (late debts being under confideration. Some debate took place on tlris propofition, when Mr. Madifon moved for an amendment to the follow, ing purport—That eflelual provilion be at the lame time maie for the liquidation Of, and crediting to tire hates, the whole of the expertces during the war, as the fame Jiias been, or may be ftated for that purpofe, that the beft evidence of the fame be taken that the nature of the cafe will admit. The committee role without deciding on tisc propo- iition or the amendment. February 25* Several petitions tveie read. The bill to provide for the enumeration of the inha bitants of the United States was b.ouglitin cngfofi'ed, when the fpcaker figned tlic fame. The bill forfecuring to authors and inventors the exclutive right of fqjling copies of their wiiiings and, inventions, was rcac a fecond time and con nit •^d. The houfe then refolved itfclf into a vin nn.icc on the report of the fccictary of the treafuty, rel.itive to a provifion for tiic fupport of the public credit of the United States. Mr. Tenibn in the chair. The propofition relative to the alfiimption of the ftate debts, and the amendment propofed thereto by Mr. Madifon, being ftill under confideration. Mr. Huntington Hated fi.me objeftions to the lall part of the amendment propofed by Mr. Madifon, which declares “ that tlie beft evidence fhall be taken as the nature of the cafe will admit.” There was no neceflity, he faidf of drawingfuch a nile into prece dent. And if there were any paiticular cafes, fuch as the lofs of vouchers, &c. that required legillativc interferencerCongrefs could always make a.proVifion for the purpofe. Mr. White then rofe and ptbpofed tin amendment to this effefl—that only the balances due by the itates, over and above the quota required of them for the common defence, fiiouhl be affirmed by Con,grcfs. Mr. Gerry, in a fpeeclj of fome length, enm- b.itted the principle on wliich the moiiofi was founded—it contemplated, he faid, the debts in quef- tion as the debts of the ftates, while in faift they were the debts of the United States ; for the -ftates had con- Irafled tho debts as agents of the Union—and it was well known, that a debt contrafted by an agent was as binding as though it !i*d been done by the princi pal, it l-ieing an cftabliflied maxim, ''quodfadt p:r ahcrinnficit per fe," there can be no diftimftion in equi ty then between a debt contraifted by Congrels, its quarter-maflers, or other purchafing officers, and by a ft.itc employed by Congrefs ; tlie creditors in each cafe being tbc creditors of the Union. Mr. Gerry faid, he had before dated, that the firll army, although federal, was railed, fuppnvtcc! and fupplied by the ftates, till it was commanded hy continental officers-^ that the flat* ;, on the rcqnifitions of Congrefs, had ma le good the clepredi.ition of the pay of the army— had frequently fupplied and recruited it, luu! at the requeft of Congrefs, ajJuuieJ the ddh of the Union, by taking up certificates of pnicliafcs niatli! by federal officers, by paying intereft 01 tlie federal debt, and by various other modes, and one ftate (I’ennfylvania) if he was not mifinfonned, had aflunied to the amount of five million dollars of the federal debt due to her citizens, and placed thisfum on the ftate funds. As the ftates then are indebted to their citizens, ought not thefe in equity to l>c paid by the United Stater for pro perty thus fupplied tbeju ? When tlie citizens crcilitcdv the ftate.s, the latter h.id all the reibnrees of tlie Uni- on ; they had the impoll, excise, niul frilc riglit of di reft taxation ; for although Congrefs h.id not ilic [low er of taxing /P/j/e/, they,coni J go no farther, anti that power could not he exei cil'ed from the want of a nyle cf apportionment required by the confetlerarion, be- caufe' the ftates could not form an eftimate of their property as required by that com pad : it mnft tlieie- fore be evident, as the citizens entniftsd tlie ftates with futiplies for the llnion, on the credit of certain ftate reibnrees, and by the late revolution in the fvf- tein of government, ihei'e reibnrccs are by the nr,ion p:ii 1 alicnatevi frorr, th Hales to th>. federal goveni- Xneut, .vhich is tlic core of the impoli j and as Congtefs are now extending their taxation to another part, the ‘c.xcife, on which rtfotirccs the ftate creditors jirincipal- iy dejiended, Congrels ate bound injultice and equity to piovide for the payment of thelc debts comraded at ilic retpiell and lor the benefit of the Uniteu btaie.s. 'I'hey are liona fide debts’ of' the Union, and only dif fer from tlie federal liquiilated debt in the form of the negociation ; jicrliaps it may be faid, that the cre- dilbi s having conlulered the ftates as debtors, have no le^^al claim again!! tlie United Slates. But Ihould Congrefs ad upon Inch an uiijull and ungenerous principle, would not the llatp creditors have realon to confidcr the whole as a Hate trick or juggle to deliaud them of their dues ! And would they over after re ly on theya/W of There can be no good rcafon then for the allerlion, that the ftates can only be creditors, or in other words, that their debts can be only afliimed, according to the proportions of the balances that may be due to tJiem relpedively on a final liquidation. Mr. -Gerry faid, tlie gentleman (Mr. Wliite) had obl'erved, ;La'' by adopting the firft amendment w e tlionld again open the door for ftate claims ; that ifft ftinuld remain Ihnt, perhaps fome in- juilice would lake place, but if the doors fliculd again be opened, tlierc would be great uneafincl's among fome of the ftates. In anfwer to tliis Mr Gerry con ceived, that the ftates conlidercd juflice as the balls of their fyliem of policj-, and would never be oppol'cd to a miafurc that would prevent injullice. Jf liowevcr, he was miftaken in tliis point—if tl'.rf foundations of' the llatc and federal governments were not laid in jul- tice, lie thought tfieir career woi ’d be but IhoVl} but ■he had no apprchenfions of tliis kind. Fl-e obferved, iliat Mr. White had faid, in c.afe of ah alfiimption, Mfhc ftate creditors may accede to it, and others not ; that of the latiernimihcr would pro- . baiji) be the citizens ol Virgini.t—-in wliicli c-ife flic miiil pay her own creditors, and contiibt-.te to ihs pay merit of the debts alln.med by the union. But where is the diilicuhy, fays Mr. Getn', rn this cafe ? Con grefs, cnnlidering the ftate creditors tif Virginia as creditors of the union, will provide for them as for other federal creditors. And it will make no differ ence to the creditors, to the finite or to Congrels, whether the latter j-iays the inrereff to the (Itite, and the ftate to the creditors, or whether Congrefs pays it direftly to the creditors. This feems too cleat to bedenied. The gentleman has faid, if the debts are'affitmed, Congrefs will fund, but not difeharge them ; whereas •the itales will do both. How, fays Mr. Gerry, does it appear that Congrels will be lefs difpofed than the ftates to pay off the public debt? The fecretary in his report has an eye to a finking filnd ; and there is no doubt of every exertion on file part of the union to difeharge the debt. True it is, the llatcs, with the ini- poft and etcife, have made fome progrefs in this biifi- nefs ; but deprived of thole refources, there -will be lefs profpeA ofthe debts being [laid by the ft.itcsthan by the United .States. The debts (if the ftates will now accumulate, as the federal debt did wliilft the ftates had thole rcfnitrpcs. The gentleman lavs, that if .ill the revenue fmm im- poft and excife is tlirow-nlnto oiir hands, it will - 01 be adequ.ale, -ind wc mnft refnit to direCl taxes, w hi li would nicdt llie difapj-irobaiion of all the fiat s. But in anf-ver to t’i.s, Mr Gerry phferved, that we 1 ave had but little experience of the avails of rh? impofl, and none of the excife, and can therefore form no judgment how far thev are capable ’f impiovciT’cnt. - One thing we know, t'nnt the in-poft is greatlv injured hy the ftate adminiftration of cxcife, and we alfn know that the latter is eluded in a gieat meat'nra in eai-'- ftate ; lb ihar tiin'cr the federal adininiftraiinn of irn- port anti excife, both would proirably be much iiureaf- el. Mr. Gerry then mentioned the dcfalrailons of cx- cife ; that the collet?) ion of it was generally fnj-| ofed in MaliachufeUs, not to erceed 2." per cent, of w ha> ought to be the amount, and Dated tlie nninner in w hich the payment of it was chided. It is inipoffible therefore, fays he, at iliis time to dliterniine wlieilur ihofe rcfiairces are or a;c not equal to the fluids re quired. Biitinppole they are not, how dioes it appear that the ftates will be uneafy ai dii-.^^! Ia\ati('n, if it is nccefi'ary to fnpport public endit? I ronfider public ere.fit as tbc m.ain pillar of tlie government. If ij is well eft-.i!>lifhcd it w ill he more vahiable llian the mines of''.’em ; for it will comniand wh.it lefmirces you, mav want—and tliof'e can do no niore : it will allii coTiiniand the confidence and attiK-hment of -i («nr fiell citizens, which will be infinitely nir.re valii.ilje—will f' cnjiilien your government, and m;.' e It immcveable. A govtrnnieiU founded in juftice I'sfo gntal a bleflinp;, as tl.at enlighteiie.l ciiizem, like thole of the United .States, will not only contrilnile their pioj'e’-Ly, • hii’ w ill rifle every tiling in fnppnri of fiic’i a';oveinrient. Mines may enable a governmi-nr to procure an arrr cf nicrceinuics; bu'. iliepo-.vcr cf tkefe is not to Le compared with that of grtod citizens. • '' ‘ Aorp pi, . cipic. It cannot thercfoi e be .doubt- ii tin- - tai.es are necelfary to [lay the juft debts o. .he uni-, and to fujiport its credit, the citi'zens willfubmii If we refer to the propofitions 3f the ftates f- •amt-nding the coiiftituiton,-lieie is notiiiiig in tlit that jullilics the contrary lup[ olition ; blit I lhal) ■ always oppolfd to'direei ta.xCs till it lhali appear tl. they arc indlipcnfibly necefiaTV T he genileman lu; poles that the aft'ur.-.pt.cn will Idfen the'influence « tlic ilates anu ci-. .1., ihc g(,ncral govcnimenr, and li • qii.itc my obfi-rvation, tfiu'i the Itates out of dehl would he out of danger : and not as ge.ntlemen i the oppofition conceived, in debt oiu of danger. T coufnte this dt'ifliine, the genilen an has liatttl a call and fays, if ow ning an eftate he ow etl money on i' he fhould think it more I'aie to take tltccilate into lii own hami.s a-nd-jSay Ills debts \. iih n.. incomes, that to ni'irfgagc hrs ellatc to another i;n his erignging it pay the debts—But Mr., Gerry obfetved, th.ii the re fonrees for paying the Date debts are taken frtsrr; tliemi. and the qneltion in the cafe liated is, whe-her th t owner of an elfate who owed debts on it, would noV exiieft ih.uilie ptrlon who occiipic.' it llif.uld with ihd incomes p iy t];._. debts of the cilaie r.itlicr th. n leavQ the owner to pa-y them. In the cate of a minor, ought no. iiis-gnarjian, who receives tlie incomes of an eftate, u pay tlie minor's delits, and not to tipply the incomes to his own life w'liilft the debts are aepu- niiriaiing? Much h.id been laid refpecfrrg part (,f tlie llaie debts liting for/w/.-and not for jedcral putpolcs : blit W( nld any gentleman deny that a moli il.e whole expemliitircs of the Hate', excL[''mg the cxpcnccs of their civi; govefr'iuncnis, were for federal puipofcs, or tliHt the ta> cs of tlic Kates had fan exceeded the civil lifts and other eyperr -s f the fta’es ? Is it not c.’iitent then that the cxilling delif (ft the ftates miift be far iliort of th'.'it demands agaiiill ilie Ifnlrctf Stu'es for npi'lies fnrnilbeiJ by their citizens ? And where is he loici,- of this blitecftioi) ? It !::ts been urged by anoifier gentleman from Virginia, (Mr Moorcl that an af- oimptiim is iinconftitniional. 1 le h.as incniioTied the -iccniints of that Ifa'e, which cnntainii'g ftate and fe deral charges, obliged the ftate to dffciimiiiate be tween them. Blit how docs this prove the uncorfti* tutionality of tlie mcaiure ? Ti e debts of t! e llatcs are either debts of tlie union or not ; it' nist, we l.ave no delire to afinnie them ; if th^y-u'e, tlnnk it nn- jull to avoid payment, becaufe of the wide in which ijiey have been ncg.-iclated j and we cimccivt it is fiif- ficienfly evident iliai the exi ting ftate dchis are for 'he property or ferviccs of indi.‘idu.tls rcccivcif b> he union. Blit fuppofe we fhoti’d refnfe to ; lionic the itatc debts, will no*- the ini'irei’ creditors of t)..,- ftates be forex ^roppoied to yoiii g.-.v run ent ? \Vi I they notcoiJ .lerthis mea'iire. exjik.incd as it w ill be in .he progtclsol the deba’-cs, as a Dale ;>r ftic- t x th-fiaiid tlietii ol their ]xrn()erty ? For ;illlinii h lie int.’gritv of the honourable fnover is iinqucft aniablc, y.-l if htr pro])o)ition, ivhcn examined, has the 'emltfncy polr-ed out, it wil!.,.if adopted, be conlidi-i ed as artifiee. 'I'l-'v ft.tte^ creit'Cixr. in a ci'nininn cattle will [irnl-.iblv not c nliiie I lie:r oppfxbiinn to 'he coHeiftion of a f deia ex- cile, hut will extend it to llie iinpoft, wliicli wi.l be c .niixlercd ,asan nnjnft alieniition of llie fl itc funds to [lay tly IcdcrHl .it the ex[ience r f tl-.c llaie' ci ei'itots. bii'-fi policy initon.lnl [immo'i'K-; peace nixd'con. f'nf, w ill be a fi'urce of war and difci.rd between t.’te dil- f.-ient dalles 01 citl'c s of the Tbiiied States. Fi'r llicle and oilier n aloos ihai max be in ged, Mr. Gerry hoped the [in .pol'tion xvoiild be n j'‘fltal. Mr. J.ivctn'oi.e was of the fimio ocinlorx a- Mr. White, that C rig-ei- ftf i.l.l afti'it’e- onlv fiuii debts -IS w ere ow ir... bythe ateS over and alinve their juft [iroportton of the ex|.'cnce.s of the war. In Ihqii.ir .’inc g. iKi .il ohf.-rvatioiis in objcdiiig to the ongiii.d pr. politloii, he fil'd it was liad pr'IIcx- to p.y money 111 ft, and then fettle ibe acn tint afvcrxx-ards. lleal- xxays likeil lolec acconnfs firfl fettle.!, and then 'lij mr.iicx- paid. 1 r apj'ea'ex! ft'■angc to iiim, how an in- diviiliial, or a na'ion, .fi cqily in d'-bt, could raile tbeir cn'dit by alfiiiniii.r to pay tlis debts of otiiers. The affiimption of’iieft.ite ddits xx-oulft injure i! c indivi. duals who xxerc crclltors—-they had trnllcd lb.- llalcs, and Congrefs had no lii'bt 'o iiiier'cre in ihcf.- i-on- n-ads. Asfor his part. If.-(houl I th.ink no man for lakiiig his efbii,’out of l is i. uuh *0 o:"- h'- • _b» ftiould ra her handle the money hiniftlf. LVi'h refpe.51 to the tT.a vim, out ol debt nut of iiiirgcr, l e-fhon' lit irw-ont agaiiiftthc meafure ; ■'crtaiii’y then going in to ddil vx'as goiui.-ictn danger ; :in..l xxoiild 10 pen- t'emcii have 1)10 fame concern for the gcucia! a- for t! c Date gov. riiTT-eiits. And w hyntn the geacial .(Toverrmeiu into danger when there was no need of it ? .ftome nirilier oonvcriation too’; plaoc on 'be fub- ic.'’. XX lien the conimiitsc role w ithout coming to a de- cifioa.