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"mv iir e nr ir im. . s S. - I i :11:3-CkRb.tNA'' W KE KLY A D V E R T IS E R. i ' ''" . l,.f, 't s " . ...;f 4fhirt are the Plan of fair deligbtfut Peace, .- , '' .T . . '' '.f-'y X ' -. 4: ' '3' .. -'- ' " Uttwarpy by Partf Rag to live like Brother." . 't, " ' "cj" 'L '"".i ', Vol I. 1 ! . . ', - Tuesday, Dkcember 3, 1791- . . : . " " '-" r" : . - . x' vr JVfr. Pinckney's Obfervations on fce Mutual Cl'a ims of the Britifh and American Nations. . j , CpncUdcd from oar hft. THE Britifh Commifnoners, frorn their reafoning, fcem to be of opinion, " That the debts exifled, and that all their rights and obi tions, :vlietler of intereft'or 6the I wife, remained attached during tMc I war: that the laws of war do not . ; deftroy private eontra&s." In the prefent civilized-ftate of mankind, it is true a war; "between different and independent nations, whofe fubjefts or citizensiare aliens to each other, does not deftrov nri- vate contrafts. ,It is howevrr onlv I i . . - , .- 1 for a! few ages that this refinement!! i nas exnicu: lormcriy, not only ail ; contrafts were annihilated, but the fortune, "and even perfons of the conquered, were, confidered as the property, arid at the difpofaLof the conqueror. Among civilized' na tions it is now different.! The in terference of war, although con fidered as a national calamity, and asfufpendingall intercourfe between , the parties,, leaves the principles of private juftke inviolate, and an ac commodation revivesevery contraft that exifled before-thel rupture. But the late war differed extremely from a common war between na tions independent of each other be fore its commencement, where the government anji laws remained un : altered, afnd war hasonly occafioned a temporary ftoppageof intercourfe; In revolutions more important rea fons occur : here, not onl all prii vate, but the higher and more fo lemn, the public orfbcial compact, the relation Between' the two peo ple being deftroyed, involved in its deftrii&icn all others ; therpowers of gKfLWitrient wereakenl into the hands of .the peo.pie 'and 'it was. from the con federation": and the flate conRitutijpns, and afterwards from that! of th United Statesf bur pre fe n r j 1 .1 w s a ndpofrc yhaveoriginated and been eftablifhed. In many in ftar.'ces it. has been altered and ac corrnodated ' to S the -nature. of our government; but wherever it cold wiiliout inconvenience, the - com mon Jaw of England was adopted ; the; debts therefore depending on the former laws and the ..relation between the two people,, and. being deftroyed with themj could only have received a new exigence from the treaty ; the claim wfii dormant. ormg ttic wir. it jneir rignts re mained .unimpaired, and by the laws of nations each party . was obliged to viev them in; their ori ginjal fitU3tion,j why the neceflity of making it an article of the treaty ? Such , articles arc,' l Believe, un uflial in treaties of peace; but the t7ue reafon no dpubt was to prevent the argument of the debtjs being ex tinuiflied; and the anxiety with "which Great-Britain infifted upon it, is a proof that they were aware of its force". Y i ' But reven if the debt did exifl, the charge of intereft i certainly unbounded, Intereft is1 a rent, or furri' paid for the ufe or! detention .wf.meney. If, as has been already jTaled' from the interference of a national calamity and war. i$ fuch, the principal cannot be ufed, or by the operation o ilaw becomes def troyed, there, intereft ihail not be charged, not even if it was exr prefsly fpecified and inferted in that contraft. If th fourth article in ftead of merely faying ' debts, had gone further; and ftipulated debts with lawful intereft,"1 even then the intereft during the war would Y not have been recoverable, becaufe : the claim is not a lawful one. Our Courts, governed by principles of the ftrifteft juftice, and ianftioned by Englifh precedents, 'have deter mined: that intereft during the war fvas riot, recoverable according to law; and' therefore, in my judg ment, the Britilh "Commihaoners have exceeded their powers, ' or at--tempted to do fo, in thej general re- : folution I : have quoted. They ought to have known that tie quef tion, whether: intereft js or is not Crotlus fayt, To Yhomfoe.ver a thing h conceded bv the oeadei ter him alia the grofits are; conceded, (rotii the time of he co.ice;ri3p, bat not b-c." allowable on conttafts, belongs ex-1 clufively to juries:' that it is one of! thofe that cannot properly be tried otherwise ; that it is what the law Calls 'an aftion founding in da mages,' and which can alone bejaf certained by a jury of the vicinage: that being acquainted with the de fenders and their circumftanes, they are the beft judges on occalipns of this fort ; that being chofenlby lot and indifferent Ad the perfons concerned in the fuit, and afting upon oath, it was much more liliely there would be impartiality in this rhode'of aflefiing damages, than in any. other; that-itwas a known and eftabiiflied rule of law that all aftions of damages muft be triecj by a jury ; and that in every attempt that has been made to have the queftion of ir tereft during the tvar determined by the Judges of ithe United Spates, as Chancellors or Judges iniquity, theyhaye inva riably refilled, and referred it to the decilioh of a jupy. No queftion certaif.ly is more proper for thecx clufive determination of a jury, than that of intereft during the war. It is one which muft depend upon fo many domeftic circumftances, fpringing from the war, and which can alone be known to perfons j re lident in the fame State with the defendant, that to . decide upon it vithout a knowledge of theie j:ir cumftances,' and a perfonal exami nation of the withefles-, would bq to depart from that courfe of proceed ing which can alone produce fpb ftantial iuftice ; that from the con- ftruftiori and character of ' pur Courts, the ability of the. judges, and the- integrity and difinteiefl: ednefs of YPurYjuries, there wasj no .reafon ito doubt the -propriety, of their decihoni; that in all cales where tho claim had been folehinH argued t and denied, the Cominilr (loners (hou id be con vinced thebn tereft ough to have been recovered : that it was the piaclice of all na tions to fuppofe that juftice .was ably and. faithfully adminiilereci m the Courts of each othei, to give full credit to their proceedings, and, where the jurddiction was ad mitted, iQYbe bound by their deci ftohs ; t&at the intercdurfe necelWy between them rendered this mutual confidence in their, tribunals indif- penlibie ; that therefore, in j all cafes wherelutereft during the war had.becn denied by oUr judicial, it was the duty of the Britifh Com mifti oners to have acquiefced, ,and confined thsmfeives only to the ex amination of the principal and fn-: tcreft; fince, where it was admittM;; and to the legal impediments that have been im pored : that 16 tender wjere our citizens on tnis luDject, aci4 oh the. lole $hd excluiive n of juries'to 'determine the queftion or intereft -during the war, that ev'e.n' ihrihe Circuit Courts of the tnited States, when once the quef tion was decided theie by a jury of the vicinage, our citizens have con. ftantly denied the right of Ithe judges to grant, an appeal on this particular queftioh, even to jthe Supreme Court to be held at the feat of Government : that the rea fon of an appeal from one of the Judges of tri(e Supreme Court to that of the whole was, that 'in cafesi of confequence and difiiculty it was j:p be prefumed there muft be more k n o wlcdge an d e xperien ce, an d cjer tainly more fafety in the opinions of fix judges, than in that of one; that therefore in all cafes in equity, and on all points proper for the de-cifions- of tlfe Judges, appeals ought to he allowed ; but that in actions founding in damages, and particu larly in this of Uplereft during ihe war, no appeal can be granted, be caufe, being exclufivcly referVed for the opinion of a jury, it vvould only bean appeal from one jury to another jury ; from one of the yi einageViwho can alone be acquainted with the parties and their c.ircum ftances. and partake of the qualities juries are intended to potfefs, to another pf ftrangers, totally .Un acquainted with them, before whpm no perfpns could be brought Sod crofs examined, and' who, as a jury, muft, from the diftance of the'Vre fiderice of the parties, the inevitable abfence g vritnefTes, and the diffi culty and danger of tranfporting books and papers, be without the means of deciding either vixh fafety to themfelves orjwith juftice to th concerned, 1 r I know of no attempt to have fuch an appeal as this granted. If it fhould be made, , ws:are to fup pofe the wifdonv and iritegrity of the judicial will refpeft it. From the little doubt there is on the point, it is to be prefumed no fuch attempt will be made. I have in troduced it here merely to convince the Britifh Commiflioners, that this is a fubjeft they ought not to have touched; thatf fubftantial juf tice to the United States required them on ;this point to have acqui efced in; the decifions of our juries ; that it was improper for our Judges without a jury to decide on it, even - in the States where the defendants refided ; '. it was ex tremely ffo indeed, for the Com miffioners, to whom it muft have been more inconvenient, indeed to whom it muft be impoflible to ob tain the neceffary teftimony, either by the prefence of witnefTes, or the produftion of papers; that where the parties were not, or did not confider themfelves personally in-' terefted, and were not to pay, but knew the United States muft, they would be inattentive to the tranf miflion of evidence: that where the diftance was great, it would be impoflible to oblainf perfonal at tendance, as the CommiiTi oners could ifTue no cornptilfory procefs to oblige it: that all the vigilance and care of the ableft agents would Jt)t mfufEcient to remedy thefe de fects; and that the' examinaf ion by comrniffion was open to fo many errors, that it was not upon he loofe and vague teftimony which Was to.be thus obtained, the United States fhould be loaded with the payment of fo confidcrable z debt : that for all the reafons: vrhich have been urged, the .attention of the CommilTionerS fhould have been dir-fted to examine only the nature and amount of the principal at the commencement of the war, the in tereft where lejejat ft nee, and the legal impediments; and having done this fhey. would find that tii all rales where they had a rigHt under the treaty to fecure to their merchants and fubje&s payment from the United States for the-principal of their debts a? the beginning of the war, and the intereft fince its con- clufion, they would then-be in as htuation to which even the hopes of our diftreffed merchant s and.' cre ditors, w ho fes families; have been ruined bv our ' tender laws, have never yet been) permitted to afpire. ' j There are fom' other points-in QOnroverfy bet ween the Britifh and American Commiflioners, which I Have not leifure at prefentto difciifs. My intention is to induce the Bri tifh Government to attend to the arguments which may be ufed in fupport of our rlaims,; and to -convince them that fo far as "heir, fub jecls are juftly entitled, he United S'ates will make ample compen lation that tHey will expeft it in return fori the loffes of their ci tizens; and that they are ready again to treat upon thefe' with "the: fin- cei ity and candor which have 'evfcr dift irguifhed them, If Great-Britain wiflies to con tinue on friendly terms with usj fhe will agree to this and attend to our realonings f but if, elated "with fuccefs, fhe is fo impolitic as to look to this-' country with other eyes than thofe of peace and com merce, fhe - will magnify' her claims and render an adju-ftmeiit as difficult aipoflible. If fuch u her ultimate object, ;it would perhaps be wife in her to confider our diftance and the inconveniences of evert a ferious controverfy with us : that although it is to be confefled licentioufnefs, avarice; and rapine," fiave but too often flairied the.caufe. of republi canifm in Europe, it' is at the fame time to be remembered, that public virtue,1 honor and juftice', have al-, ways graced its artnaiiif here : that the rights of iuffrage, reprefehtatioa and of jury, are facredly prferved to us : that Corruption is as yet a ftranger: that although there may; j as m all others, be errors in the ad mini flration of government, yet by flight changes, they - can be foon made td vanilh", and leave it in itsi purity i that enjoying tinqMeftion-: ably the greateft political happinefs uporfwttj, "mild and gentle in their deportment to' all nations, and un willing again to tread the thorny path of. war, our citizens are flill always prepared mo defend their public honor, and cherifh. their go vernment and its rights with the attachment and affection due to fo excellent '.'a fy ft cm. , 1 - A South-Carolina Planter, chatlefton, .O&ober 26, 1799. Pivifion oj Wilkes County. The aeftie'a orj the fecond reading of the . Bilt for dividUg the County pfWilkes, being under 'coufideTatipn in the Houfe of Commons of this State, p the5th jnft. the following Debate took place. MR. Rqbinet obfervedr that though this i bill had . frequently been before the - LegiflatUre, yet as there were many .new members in the houfe, yfho might not be ac quainted with the reafons upon which it. is founded, he fhould trouble the houfe! with a few word, on the fubjeft, in: order o remove impreffions from the minds of mem b'ers which ,may 'have been mad' upon; 'them out of dqors. He. ha been - in'ftrucied for- five yeats paft to ufe his endeavours, to effeel the objeft of this bjll, which he had not failed to do, though -hithertc ineffeftuallyY . His conftituentk wjio pray fcr this mcafure, think it due to them in juftice, and think it.is owing to a'failure of duty in their Reprefentativcs that.it has not yet been. obtained, believing their defiie to be fo perfectly reafonable, He hoped, however, the. time war. at length arrived when (the good fenfe of theXeg-flature would grant relief to thefe aggrieved citizens. Mr. R. fpoke of the grest extent ofthis county.. He fa id it is 94 mifes in length, and from 30 to 45 in. breadth; and called .upon. 'the houfe to confider the fituation 'cf fuch a country, 'with the Apala cHiih mountain rur.nihg through it. and the long journies, tfje cituens. muft of receffity be 6bhged" To take, in order to attend their Courts qf Juftice. . Mr. R,' fuppofed t it woulibe objelcd now as it had bee n heretofore. t fc at th t a x e's re--ceiled by the YTreafur.y from this county,' are not fuffi'cient' f.o pay additional " Repfefentativcs. He hoped, c however, ' this objection --would not tiave any we ght. For fome years paft, it was well knbwp that this county hudheen in a ftate of corifufion, occafioned .by Land Speculators whofe lands have as yet yielded nothing to the revenue ; but he fruited this would not lon remain the cafe as 150.000 acres had been ordered to be fold for taxes at their laft Court.' ' - - Mr. Pur vianc e did not intend to have troubled the houfe with any obfervations of' his; but the 'importance of the prefent fubject had compelled :him to depart 'from this determination; its -advantages and difadvantages ought to 'be weighed, arid the bill received or rejected accordingly. It is ' novr, faid Mr. Pi about ten years fince thefe people have cried f6r.a"di:viJ fibn of their-couhty-; and though they have hitherto cried in vain, they have, ftill annually renewed their applicatiori for redrefsj Such a perleverahce is a ftfohg-eyiderrce of the inconveniences which they fuffer j nothing but ufgen't rieceffity could (have induced fuchAinwearied application j ' Indeed if r ever a county wasi entitled to a; diviftbn, he :faid, it was this. The: Apala chian j mountain running through it; and the Coint-houfe being on one fide of jit, and a ' great, number of the citizens -on the bther, f hey are of neceffitylput to great incon veniepces 'and'hardfhips in palling it, in order to attend" jipon their Courts. We who live; in a level country, - can have no idea of thefe inconveniences and hardfhips, a rifing from the inclemency of the weather arid mountainous bad roads.- Living our felves in a tem perate climate, we know-nothing of deep. fnoWs and fwollen 'waters., Mr. P. : painted th6 fcehe of a win ter, paffage ; over the mountain in high colours; obferv'ing that whilft ye fatirouridiotlr -comfortable fires, rive had no thought of the poor dif ;trefled! widow of Wilkes, who might'at this inclement feafon, be obliged to; pafs 1 the Apalachian mountain to attend ? CourU ; 1 If then .(aid Mr. .P.r thefi grievances are, experienced by the! people of Wilkes, it becomes the bufinefs of the Legiflature toredrefi them . i Jt was fo r ihe purpofe of redreftirig grievances, and to make the people app'y, that the General Affembly was formed. It becomes an object of conftderatioo, there fore, whether the grievance exifts, and if it does, whether this bill is calculated to femove if. . -". That it does exift is f elf-evident, and has never been denied ; and it J is 00 ly by pa fling a bill of this kind that it can be remoytd uhlefs, in deed a law were pafled for the ercftion of another, Court f houfe, fo that ope I might be on each fide of ih,t mountain. y!A bill ofsthis kind . w'as before jthe. houfe at the laft feffion, and .jejtfted. Sufitcieht . objections", though, in his opinion neither founded m reafon or juftice,, had conftntly been urged to pre vent the paffage of th:s bill. The fir ft o. jelion was a mere ar bitrary averfipnlp a divifion of any ccuntyj This is an objection, , but not a;: argument v. it fh'ews."he aver- ; fion of thofe u ho ufe it.j but not the grounds upon which that taver fion is eftdbhfhed. And why thjs averfiori; o new counties? Wre have heretofore had, and in a few vears fhall donbtlefs again have, many -new counties. The principal argument ufet -Jgainft the bill, is, .that the rrvenue it prelent -arifing from the county, 'S not more, than fufRcient to pay 'he prejeht, expences.-. To deflroy , h s argument will not require any , great ingenuity, ' - ' Mr. P., faid he fhould exhibit a calpulai'ion whicli he had made in . relatibnHo this lubjeft, - The amount of land in "vVilkes, returned by -jheftie'tiiff, is. - - - 217,178 acret. WThich at, ?l."per 100 acres, is jz t 6 The amount of potls is 1287, . . which at stsYiV - 128 14 o Y . . . . .3 Making Ja the whqle yoj p , But the county iVfaid to be abo'wt ico mie$ long atra d miles wide, containing in the u-haie, an area'W 3,200,000 acres. . From which deUut the. . " land returned J7ij' acret. And there i left a balance ooiiuejd bi - "3,982. 82 acre , 1 J not icturned i Which at Sd per iso cre. 18,994 . 4 of taxes not piVen in. Which, added to the fum of zoi . -"0 of taxes which have been given in, ; , Makes ike whole amount of the Y" revenue which ought to 1 beY given in for that county to be 119 5 ' 4 Which, inftead -bf bentg barely fufHcient to fupport the expenCft of three members, would fupport eighteen ; ; but, admitting the cal culation to.be a large one, take one half the amount, and fufficient is left for the maintenance of nine members. - -; But, faid Mr. P. there rnuftr b fome 'othen objeftiens to this rrea fure fome latent-arguments; which produce the flrong and uniform jop pofition'Wihich is-given to the paf fage of thi billj or it would long fince have palled, What form this fpeclre had afTumed, he could not pretend to fay ; if -it'-had' anyre ferencc to the removal of the feat of JGoyefnmenthe could only fay, thit that was fixtd by a cemerit too flrong to be difTdlved by fo fimpic:a' meaTure as that of the divifion ; of the 'county 0 Wilkes. The ig-i netted' peoplev who --call for this divifiotij' he betie?'fcd;' had nrith.ex objeftin view but thatfof 4-em'nvirig' theloeal difadvantages under which they lab'our.. lie hoped therefore the bill Would pals.' ' Y; Mr, BlackjLrde; laid, he was one of the number of -tho& whov we re o ppofed t o t h 1 s b f 1 1 , be th oqg h t ' it his duty to offer fome arguments in fupport of the vote, which .he meant to give. In doing this, he fh&uld not follow the gentleman from Fayette through his mazf88f eloquence, but confine himfelf Id." fimple fafts. , f ' Mr. B. believed the ftatement which the geritlejrhan had produced of the amount of taxes paid into the i Treafury by the county of" Wilkes, was snearly Hiht- lie himfelf had alio t -aftament.i He believed it would be;a good ar gument in favour of theyifionpf a county, to fhew that the people a. re pumerousenpugh to fupp6it.two"fet of member$ ; or againft ifj to fiiiew;" the. contrary,,; - . y -' VyO. 1! -4 . ' i. 1 if .a 1 .9 -1 YJY,.,Y:- -i: ::?ii ,Y-T- ; v -Y' :
The Weekly Raleigh Register (Raleigh, N.C.)
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Dec. 3, 1799, edition 1
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