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' 1 .- . ' - . . , '
THE C O K ST IT UTION AND T It E L A W S
THE GUABDIANS OF OUft LIBERT V
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: Voi. XLW
HILLSBOROUGH, N;' C, OCTOBER 16, 1865.
No. 2208.
I ,' J.'-.li i i i ' :' ''' ' M 1'iVji' ji'i ' " " 1' 'ii'' i i f iV mi " mi' i jim, 'i 'i lining. mil . ..,! m inn '"i ''mi .mh.i.1 ' '
f THE CONSTITUTION AND T HE LAW R mmm T IT P. ft TV A T T X A V C O TC . fill ti T . 1 XX V Ti T' V '...
Dabate cn thft Beccssloa Qaestloa.
VnFINHED DC8INE8S, FRIUAV, OCT. 6.
. Tht CooVention resumed the cod libera'
tionof the'unfioiuhej bttfcioeii ef yeter
Jaj' fesiionvizt An ordimnce declar
" )tig null aod Ttid the ordinance of -Rla
'0ihi 1861" and tba aubstiiufe offered bjr
Mr. Ferebee, heretofore publishdN v v
The question being opoo itrikin out the
Committee'! ordiiance, tor. Mcfrer cO
Ureiied the Ccafention in luppurt of (be
vbit'tute, Atiich he prelerfed'becavst it
did out cidertakt to decide what tht effect
f the teceision ordinance wi;v It ignor
ed thiaqaeatioa of validitj., Te etwinlt
lecV ordinance did not, but dtclarcd the
eceftion ordinance of oon-effcct. IrUhii
e rtprct ht deemed tht tubititute prefers.
Ur. - We htve ftught, leji$bted, and form
d parties under the ordiisacce ofteccaion,
and, he aid, it did net nw become ai to
iultilj ourwUfioj t'enjing ila aliditj.
' yt. N. A. McLean aaid he had never be
tirted that! State had a ci uititutional right
'to ecede. - He Ac J fcelieted in the rijUt
1 1 rt rcin. He thcaght there had been.
two inuch'dicuiion aJrri'!? abevt a mefi
Mjfi'treoce of f hrno!'f The !arsgvae
ul imnatrri!. " Somh Carolina,
krtwtkir at the dm-r f t.y Uninn for ad
m kftii, would hanllj.be driven away be
'aaf, in anoolling btt orilitr'ce f ecrs.
in, hvr Convrnucn h,vl ttd the tnl
irj ! " Xhe af but uut ttjectin
, the cempiltiee'a re pri. ; The secemittn
una t.atter f rtcord- It rouSd not b
ut. WiiJt the effect of the idi
raiite .f ectifn before vi.ard the retO'
lultMiarj pmrniucut which it;paa;e
ttvguitfted, ffh iu er n'eworiet, it wai
dV to av that the ordii.ar.ee hii aiwaji
len tuli'ard iid. Wih thi eip!ara-'
ioa.'ht r at wiilit j tt o?e lor the cwsn
mttti 't crdir.ar.Ce.
Mr. ThotK pro thought t! r poiti n t
the ad ttun of (ht ciinrHifw' udinarrc
tty untkval. Thr ttdii ance i the
ur.niiQ( U9 rrprrt f f the ci mn.ittce to which
tthe CofPtit.n ha! rft rfed the tnittrr.
Adrtic t Mr. I'eretrt'a tstrrnent that
tie tLij?He t CV nd tv x tu by w;
f fvnr;rrfujf, Mr, l Ut'irprti whri u
Ihuw ht nceiittt l ut .n rmie,
hrti the rntUntn purling theVuljfti"
file' pit led tu agrre with th ffimtnittre
n repudiitirg U.v right to recede, tod
tirmati?.ir.g rcefticti a revolutionary.
1 Mr, T. pfocerded at lenth tc rypore
t''e,fiUac? ol the dctnri of ecerent and
, the .adt'ptiun of the c muiittee'a re
Mr. Kattn atpported the nubititatc. He
t rharactrr had been rtiiirepretcntrd.
It litd, bain held up aa a tntrt rtfta. It
ai mere. Itieiaiecil the title ti th com
ti.itlee' r-r'dinat.te.drcUnnj; the ordinance
.1 Mceaica nud cw I toi., A.'kditi; alo
t the word "recnd, abrogate and rc
.j tii curd in the iiibititute. Mr. Eatvti
injtd that the tbniuie iu arv wanner
r tv any eatit ecdrird the dkctrise !
. f ctM'oo ) the gtraWrnan f ruin Ucftie wa,
thrrtlote, ating hia amnrunition by f r-i'-X
in tht air, in tnrjtrg forward at thii
tune a labored argunirut agiinit sfCosMwn."
'I object of the ktbttftute wa the.peedf
iptpration of civil Jaw and tW return ol
the State to ih I Vtrrj, Thi i!er al
mineral, and a evidei ted by tt.e crari
jiaiuvtc for Mr.ICi&'rrcletiitirqor
tjnj the tioii of tie rational tin mi the
Citpi'ol. lie prefrried tnt a.nicndoint at
. tnurr taJcutstrd t aecure a unanimoui
. Its language a runre rpwtlui
-r the I'onvf r.tin tf lbC, and to the pe
.j k af K'.rtb Carolina U M tl.cm there
t& do what tht) did. At for tur-ndf ft
, 'mJ !vy r gatt'ed the drctrihe oftccM
un,a iiul)ii; a ciere irvoSuliii!i&ry
i);hL, In the I.citlaturr i ISJ, in di
,' if-u with Mr. Acry, of lluikt-. ha had
" Vrnit1jr oj pi ed trie aWrtin cf the doc
trine $ a ctn-tiiutitaar ri;ht. iltferrin;
toVashirgton'a Firewcll Address and Jet
ferun'i Inaugural at hit political guidci.
iit Vspiciied tht hope that with the return
ptace, thc.iword be beaten intft the
4p!Hgfcihre, and ttr paople everywhere
f tnaloat of tecurittj thoie ictoriet vjrhick
peace no t than war has ur store for her
votaries: " , .. -
1' Mr. Warren had hoped that a vtte would
havo beejt reached ot yesterday, but as a
member of the committee wb reported the
pending ordinance, and alio of the Con
vention of 18G1",. which passed the seces
sion ordinance, he .deemed it dot to hi.-n-
kit that he should give brief expression to
his views. It was. allcgtd by these who
supported the amendment that, the original
proposition is discey'rtettu to the Conven
tion ol lfcCl. He regarded it as somewhat
singular that ht and two others, members
of the Convention of ISCI, who were also
on the committee that reported the present
erdinance, should have .tailed trset any
thing in tit ordinance which could bt ttu
stroed intoa rrOecroa upon themselves.
It was welt understood that he and thoe
who thought with him Constituting a large
majority of tht Convention of 1861, were
made by the ordinance of secession to say
what was untrue, and thia was the.first op
portunity they bad had to give expression
to what were ihen their vtewt. St lar from
beiag discourteous t ttirra it was the high
est act I jtihtict. He thought that little
courtesy vas due to tht Uotuinaut, hoi
headed uisjnrity that governed and guided
that Coaveniroo. The fiMi proposition was
offeied thtm ty Mr..Badgri The great
pght" to ftlu m the geAUryan Iroia tdge
ctmbe (Mr. Howard) bh relened. if that
gcrtkmao and those Vbuocttd with hict
htil foUowrd Mr. Badger's lead, there had
bcn no bloedy war to c'e'solated fields
no vaciint tca'.t at hcartb:one ami boaid.
lie j rojiCsei a declaration of indepeniknce,
j lacit. thf S au vn a reolutiooary f rom-I.
list thii did nut suit tht view g of th na
jertty. Clurf Jatjict Kullin, representing
the tountr of Alamance in the Convention
t.f UCt, BViei a substitute for Mr. Craig's
t'Wieance the i ce adoj.'eu. i his stbsti-
tute ws an prd:rance of s-jparatiwi., puie
&ad sirop!er tid l.o hul prtiiuIy inoxed
a reJtut.ee ol the vtdiaai ce loarcvutmittre.
Iiut the n ijority wtreio hni)akte,atjd te,
wLOse itpbtatri n s a jurist i co'txten
in uitti the r public, as svpt aay
like a leather, hen he came ii.to ccntiict
r.!i that trsjority ; )tt tl e atrlhe men
that tre to te tiwtel with pecutitr cour
te I Thi d'gniEcd body Imir.g j tsi
the cekttn r ir.atice, resolved aelf in
to a cob ktidrr the firing if csriMin arid
risgrgof tells, . I speak this,! mid Mr.
W., " in the presence of the venerable
President of d.atCcaveniioo." (Hoa.Vrl
Clu N. Edwards was present to :he Hall.j
Mr. Want ft added that .,h charge ot
iiit courtesy was per oral, ar.d thtrelore m
not susceptible oi refutarn. Trie mover
of the t ubtttute carue as a j'face-makr,
bearing the olive branch, aoti bow concili
atoryr he aked, in this pacification, when
he ets tut by charactering ihe commit
tee's ordinance as bearing malice prepense
upon its lre? t ooc gentlemen tppi se
the i.rd. nance, but art t-omewbat reluctant
to hVAr tie grcunds ol their cppoition;
while other object to the recital, declar
ing in ellect that the ordinance of 1 61) had
never been mvaJidfeii. - He domed the
wording cl the can:iuittee' ordinance pe
culiarly approprttte, fr delegates to the
Contenttaa of &tl did r ut? outebt tl vtii
cle wtth Vectititig, but went euteT their
av fl nd undertook repeal the wii!tiiaice
oi lrt. . ... " ; .-
.Mf'Oie contend ! tre is t o tltlivrence te
fcveeii the two pnpoiti. , .Tht delegate
Wdri AUn.ai.ce (Mrl Mcbar.t) istaceedtng
ly in l with toib rather objects to the
hrst bccie it is a couimentary oo the
Conlitntiinlaiit prefers the latttr because
it h a trpial pure ami annple." Jifi
thought the gentleman trom Orange (Mr.
rhtitipt) mistaken tu the opinion that in
legal licet there was no difference between
the twit proportions. It wan pissing strange
there shirotd be such ttrcnuout opposition
frtm the gentlemen from Craven aud Wil
son, (Messrs. Matslr and Howard,) if tht;
difTtreocc were merely one of phraseology.
In conclusion, ho arguod that the substi
tute did aot speak tht truth. It spoke, he
said, the same old heresy .o?f 1801, ajsd
comet here Tor re-ndtrsetntnt. ,J;
Mr. Brown said'that as a taember of the
Convention of 1661, he had voted for the
secession ordinance j he therefore deemed
it doV to himself that he should give stme
exposition'of the reasons that would influ
eoct his present vott.' Heboald support
the- sebntitute offered bj the gentleman
from Camden. In concert with the gentle
man froea Richmond, (Mr. Doofcery.) be
had opposed the doctrine ef secession in
the Stste.Senste of 1860-'61, and Jtt coald
truthfolly disclaim all sympathy i the
fatal step that involved the country in war
Although as a member ef the committee
that .-e ported the pending ordinance, he
bad astented to their report. On subse
quent consideration he had changed his o
pinion, aad coald not consistently with bis
ewu eelf-respecf, and respect foe the pee
pit of tie State, support the ordinance." ,
He believed that two thired of the peo
ple in 1861, were opposed to sectegion,r
si; bat when all the Southern States had
seceded, North Curolina occupied an ise-
laieu ponuon. i ne secession oi Virginia
and President Lincoln's proclamation had
put tne State' under political duress. She
had either to unite with the seceded States
or enjasc in a fierce and enguiwiry civil
w ar. Thus acting under inexorable neces
sity, the words which the great dramatic
delineator ol huniaa-character puts in Ihe
mouth of his ficturs, , ' ' '
,",M? i overly, i.ot n,y will, crnfjet?,"
tulght well, with a little alteration, have
hten used by her. She might welt hive
aid, .
" My Wuc'titn, not bij will, cww ect."
in adverting to his cnnsitettt eppo
itiui to secession, Mr. Urown stated that
he had been elected in his ccuctv-by a ma
jority of over three loone, epposing seces
si&TT j and further, that during the session
of the Virginia Ci nventioa, he had vijUrd
the city of Itichmend. aml.urged members
to stand hst, and tellirg them that North
Carolina would r.ever'f ecede while Virgin.
1a maintained hrr Invaltv to the Union.
Hesanl that tle laosuae of the substi
lute wnt further than the repealirg ordi
rence of ary 'other Southern Ss.ta'e. ' It ac
crmptished''restoht'i"'n to the Union, and
leti r.o stign-a on a great people." It was
his detided ci:vict?on that a large major
ity uf the-delegates to the Convection ol
lfGl, were elected with the expectation,
en the part of their owstitucnt, that they
would ps. the ordinance of eectsrien, and
he way unwilling to pa? an ordinaUce re
flecting upon them. The President's po
clamatNin, he said, duet not require as-to
lav down platforms and platitudes, nor sloes
a rerj'jire ais-crtauens upon lor.fmuuon
al Law. . '
Mr. Moore, ef Wske, laid thatthe report
rl tle committee embodied, ihe great po
litical' truth of the land, and he could not
ee hw an assertion of this trtlth cculd
ggerieie ar.v one. The ordinar.ee was an
e ii u relation" ft his political faith, "nd lit
hsd a rifht to ek if endorseo ent. lie
athed whit wae the effect of the Secession
Ordir.ufcce? Did ilcacrr the State tut of
the Umoh, or did it nntr ! !
Mr; "Howard said, in. reply, tat the!
S'ate tvai sustained in its action lor four
j ears by tijlifiry power; that during this
j'crirtd, ahe wj."to all intents and purpos
),,indeTn!rt, having Eiecstivc, J,g
i'a f ami Judiciary liepar'ment all
the lanr'ilr.erjk of govtrntntnt ir iLt full
cmcif of ttieir function.
Mr Moore did not deem this a ftll an
er tu "his justiort, as it did riM touch
the patter f right. When, the ordinance
tf Kftsslon pnssod, ti e Statf went out of
die Un-on or it did not go. If it did, how
rould delegate tifce an oath io support the
Constitution of the United Slate while the
ordinance remained unrepealed? lit ar
gued at stme length .to show that the se-J
cession ordinance (as averted by the, com
mitter's report) was null ub initio and nev
er had any legitimate legal effect... .The
hoisting, said he, of the isationalFlag en
the Capital, was under any other hypothe
sis, both absurd and degrading.
'he discussion" was continued. Messrs.
Fcrcbce, Manly, Hoyden and.Caldwell, of
Burke, participating. V The ker advocat
ed the committee' ordinance, the former;
supporting the substitute. The lepgth this
report has attained, precludes further no-
uce; or me ueoaietj . ,
The question recurring en the. motion fo
strite out, on motion of Mr." Smith, , of '
Johnson, the yeas aad nayg were; ordered.
Yeas 19, nays 94. r . .
" St the ConventioTi refused to strikeout.
The questiou noitr being on the passage
of tho. ordinance its second reading,
Mr3 Meore, ef Wake, moved to amend
the otdinance by inserting after the word
'. Sftates," the words " and also all acts tnd
part of acts of the General Assembly, rat-;
ifymjr and aaoptmg amendments to- the -said
Constitution are" and by etsbstituting;
in the 8th line " have" fpr hath.f T These.,
anvndraenti were adoptedTheir effiect
is tt assert the validity, past as -well as
present, of the ectsf and parts ef acts re
terred to. " :
Tht ordinance then passed its second
reaotngas touows: . - . . .. ..
- The jets and nays were ordered, enno-
tion tjf Mr. Stewart. .. . , '.h . -. . ,
Those who voted yea were Mssra.'AcS
aras, Alexander, BaineS, Burrow, .Beam,
Bell, Berry, Bincham, Bovuen. Bradlev.
LBrlckell, Brown,- Brooks, Bryan, Burgi'n,
Uuxlon. liynum, Caldwell, ot Burke, Cald
well. tf Guilforw, Clark, Conigland,Cov,
per, Dickey, Docker, Donnel, Eaton, El
lis, Faircloth," Faulkner, Furches, Gaha
gan, Garland, parretl.. Gilliam, Godvir,.
Griswra, Harris of Guilford Harris of Ruth- .
erford, Haynes, Henrahan Henry, Hodge,
Jackson, Jan is, Junes of Columbus. Jones of
Davidson, Jones of Lendcrson, Jones ot Rowan-,
Jyce, Kelly, Kennedy, Kingi Lash,. Lo
an, Love. of.ChathaailiOve, of Jackton, '
Lyon, McCauleyY McCtrkle, McDonald
of Chatham, McDonal',. of Moore, IcGe.
tree; M civ er M c Kr,N. A MeLean, Nai
McLean, McLaughlin! McRea, Mcbane'v .
Moore, of Chatham, Moore, ol Wake, Nich-
olson, Norfleet, Odom, Patterson, Perkins,
Phillips, Polk, Pool.Jleadc, Rumley.Rus
sell, Rush, Sanders, ?eu!e, Simmons, Sloan, '
Smith, of Anson, Smith, of Johnson, Smith,
of Wilkes Spencer, of Hyde, Spencer, of .
Montgomery, Starbuck, Stephenson, Stew
art, Stubbs Swanh, Thompson, Walkupi
Warren, Willcy, Winburne,- Winston
Wricht 105.
iVflys Mcssr Allen, Faison,Fercbee, "
How ard, Jovner, Manly, McCoy, Marpliy,
Ward-a: . . ; .-
. On motion of Mr. Manly, the rules were
suspended, and the ordinance-passed its
third reading. -
- On motion of Mr. Manly, the Convcn- ,
tinn fpsperded the rule, and an ordinance,
heretofore introdaced"by htm, V in relation
to the authentication of ordinances and
other acts of the Contention," jascd its
second and third readings. ;
F.EMAKKS or JUDGE HOWARD or WILSD.V. ,
'
On the substitute offered by Col. Ferre- .
bee of Camden, to Ihe ordinance declaring
null anil void the ordinance of May 20,
UG1. '
In the Convention cflSGl, on tneetiflg
with thodelrgate from Wake, whos greaj
intellect has Jjcen 'since overcast, to the
prcat loss of the country, and my own deep
regret he asked me if I really believed in
the rght of ercMon. To which I rcplietl
I liave hw faith in political rights without
remedies. . Aa there is no provision of the
Constitution expressly authorizing the Go
vernment to coerce a State, and rone ex
preslV reserving the right td the State to
wiihitraw to settle thtfquestion of construc
tion, th,e sword is the only arbiter-succes
alone will justify 'either side. This beir.g
so I havo never .thought a State should at
tempt seccr-sioh without just cause cause! ,
for. revolution as that alenewmild unite
our people of all political opinions. But
so far as the citizens of the State are con-
cerned, I believe and hold that an. ordi
nance, passed by a Convention constitu
tionally called, binds every enc this alone
can prevent anarchy, which is worse tban
war. To this he answered, " y bar secof.
aion i practically tnj right of rev olutioh."
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