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congress. SEVE-VTEEXTU CO.VOUESS FiriST SESSION. mOM TUE 5ATIO.V4L IXTSLMGESCEU. .V SEMITE TKUR3II1T, J.V.V. IT. CUMBERLAND HO A I). The bill to provide fir the repair of the Cumberland !!ojd,(hy erecting gates, and collecting toll thereon, to be expend ed in repairs of the road's was next in or der ; and the presiding oliicer commenced the reading of it. Mr. Lowrie said he apprehended it was not necessary to proceed with the reading of the bill ; for, if gentlemen would turn their attention at all to the contents of it, they must see, that it was a revenue bill, and that this house had therefore nothing to do with originating it. To try the sense of the Senate on this point, he moved to lay the bill on the table. IVIr. Johnson, of Ky. expressed his sur prise at this objection to the bill ; and unv eil briefly the great importance of thin road, and the indispensable necessity of establishing some system for keeping it m repair. He could not view this at all in the light of a revenue bill. JMr. Lowrie said, that the bill proposed that gales should be erected, and tolls re ceived, on the road, which of course ac crued to the Treasury, and out of this fund the expenses of repairing the road were to be paid. Now, Mr. L. said, levy ing a tax at all, or in any shape, is the province of the House of Representatives. He was perfectly willing that the subject should be investigated as it deserved ; but it was evident to him that the bill ought not to take the shape in which it now pre sented itself to the Senate. In order to try that question, he moved to postpone the bill indefinitely. Mr. Talbot said, he hoped the bill would not be postponed. This road, which had cost an immense sum to the United States, was going to ruin, and it was all important to its preservation that this bill should pass. The bill, he said, does not contemplate the raising of a rev enue, within the terms of the constitution al limitation of the origination of such bills to the House of Representatives. For, said he, what is a revenue bill ? It is a bill laying a general imposition on the people of the United States, for the gen eral purposes of government. This bill was not, he said, snrh a one. It propos ed to collect money for a speciF.c object, and for no other ; a mere imposition of a toll for a special purpose could not .be con sidered as raising a revenue. This road, which had cost so much money, which was a monument of the wisdom and liber ality of the general government, and was of vast importance in a commercial as well as political view, ought to be preser ved from dilapidation and other injuries, and he trusted that the Senate would not concur in the objection which was now taken to the bill which had been reported for that purpose. Mr. Johnson of Ky. wished to record his name on this question of postpone ment. If the construction which had been put on that part of the Constitution which regards revenue bills, was correct, the Senate would have very little indeed to do with originating laws. Gentlemen certainly would not sav that the Senate could not pass the bill on that ground If it was opposed on other p rounds that, for example, of a want of power over the road now it was made, that was another and a fair ground of opposition. Hut, in the words of the Constitution, " All bills for raising a revenue shell originate in the House of Representatives," he could dis cover no objection to this bill. Perhaps his zeal in favor of the object of the bill had blinded him : certain it was, he s;.id, he could imagine nothing much further from a revenue bill than this bill was. If, he said, this great road was to be suffered to go to decay, after the million of dol lars which had been spent upon it, to con nect New Orleans and Boston by an inte rior communication, let it go. lie could trudge over the mountains and through the valiies, without the road, as well as others, but he should lament it : and he hoped the question on this bill would be tried c:t its merits, and not on an inciden tal question. Mr. Otis said he was not at present rec onciled to an indefinite postponement of this bill, in regard to the object of it, on which there had been so great an expen diture of public money, but which was so cherished by a grat portion of the peo ple of the United States, and in which perhaps every portion of the People of the United States began to feel wOme in terest. He never had been, he said, an advocate for expending on this torul so great a mass of the public monev as had been laid out upon it. Rut, after the road had been made, it was certainly incum bent on Congress to ce whether or not they had the constitutional power to keep that road in repair. The objection which was now made to th's bili was new ; and he should be j;lad, for his own part, to have time to examine it. When it was first suticstcd that it was a revenue bill, the objection had appeared to Mr. Otis to he plausible ; hut further consideration led him to doubt on that point. He was inclined to think, that this is not a reve nue bill. The tax, which it proposes, is a voluntary and sclf-asoumcd tax. No man was obliged to pass over the road un less he chose ; and, if lie chose to avail himself of this casement granted by the United Stales, under the condition of pay ing at a certain rate there.br, Mr. O. said it "struck him, with great deference to the opinion of others, it was to bo regar ded rather as a matter of compact than as a matter of taxation : Heretofore, the United States had granted to those using it the free enjoyment of this road, crea ted at the exoensc of the government : The question which this bill presents is, whether a consideration shall be annexed to and made the condition of this grant. Mr. King, of New-York, said he should prefer that this bill should lie on the ta ble, rather than be postponed. Mr. Lowrie assented to tins course. If, said Mr. King, the bill be not a revenue bill, it is so vcrv near to it as to be likely to produce a collision between this and the other house as to its real character. On the whole, he thought it the best course to lay the bill upon the table, and to let it lie there until the other house should have acted on this subject. Mr. Lowrie said, he had not objected that Congress could not pass this bill be cause it was a revenue bill, but that, being such, the Senate could not originate it. By forcing it upon the Senate, as origina ting here, some gentlemen, among whom Mr. L. said he was one, would be compel led to be against the bill, though in prin ciplc favorable to its provisions. The motion of Mr. Kirig, to lay the bill on the table, was then agreed to, and The Senate adjourned. IIOCSK OF lir.PilllSKNTATlVIIS. Mr. iSfoyd, from the committee to whom was referred an inquiry into the expedi ency of occupying the mouth of the Co lumbia river, and of regulating the inter course with the Indian tribes, reported, in part, a bill to regulate the intercourse with the Indian tribes within the United States, and territories thereof; which was twice read and committed. A IP 0 1 1 r I ON M E IT O F ltr.i'I K S KNT ATI ( )X. Mr. CumtibflU of Ohio, moved that the orders of the day prior to the apportion ment bill be postponed, with a view that that bill be now acted upon. Mr. Blair opposed the motion. 1 he complete returns from South-Carolina had not been made. lie had reason to be lieve they would be so in a few days With regard to the reason that had been drawn fioni the convenience to the legis latures of the states now in session to lo cate their congressional districts, he thought the inconvenience of postponing it for another vear was less than that a state should be deprived of its ratio ofj population. The question was then put and the mo tion was carried. The House thereupon resolved itself: into a Committee of the Whole on the ! bill for apportioning the representatives of the several states to Coneress, accord- ing to the Census ot 1820, Mr. Smith, of! Md. in the chair. I Mr. L.ozi'Kclcfi thought it improper to' consider the bill at this time, not only for the reasons that had been assigned hut because the State of Delaware was with-! out a representative on the lloor one (Mr. Rodnry) having been elected a Sen ator, and the other (Mr. Ale lane) having gone home on account of sickness. Mr. Bail thereupon, moved that the committee rise and report which motion was p.cgat'n rd. After some discussion of the subject, the Home agreed, yum. con. to consider the word "fjrtu" before the word " thou sand" in the bill as repotted by the Com mittee a blank, so as to leave the appor tionment unfettered by any rules or ques tions of order. The following numbers, for the ratio of apportionment, were there-! upon proposed : Ry Mr. Kcycs, of Vermont, 75.000 Ry Mr. Van VVck, of Nev-York, .55,000 Rv Mr. Morgan, of New-York, 52,000 liy Mr. Tracv, r.f New-York, 50,000 Rv Mr. Williams, of N. C. 40,000 Iy Mr. Upham, of New Hampshire, 4M,000 My Mr. Mallarv, of Vermont, 47,000 liv Mr. Abbot, id Georgia, i(,000 ifv Mr. AVood, cf New-Vork, 45,000 fv Mr. Itarbcr, of Ohio, 44,000 llv Mr. r.cbhard, of New-York, 41,000 Uv Mr. Kd wards, of N. C. 42,000 liy Mr. lioss, of Ohio, 41,090 liv Mr. Rochester, of New-York, 40,000 llv Mr. Gist, cf S. C. o9,000 liy Mr. Tucker, of Virginia, 58,000 llv Mr. I:nlics, of Massachusetts, 37,000 llv Mr. I'arrcllv, of Pennsylvania, 36,000 Uy Mr. Baldwin, of Pennsylvania, 35,000 Mr. Wood, in support of the number (45.000) he had proposed, remarked that it was impossible to fix any standard that should give a piecise ratio for representa tion. It ought, however, to be such as would he most sure to introduce intelli gence, integrity, and dispatch in the per formance of the duties confided to this house by the constitution. Seventy-five thousand and thirty-five thousand "were the extremes that had been named. If mrdi-j tuiuauv. Seventy-fne thousand was, in his opinion, too large ; und thirty five thousand tco small a ratio. The number should be so small that the elec tor and elected could be supposed recip rocally to know each other? and that the representative should fully understand the interest of his constituents. It would be recollected, however, that the facilities of intercourse were greatly improved with in the last twenty years. A bill could hardly pass through the house with the ordinary forms, before its drift and bear ing were not only known, but discussed, even in the remoter States of the Union. There was less necessity, therefore, than formerly that the districts should be large. In addition to which it would be consider ed that the qualifications of a representa tive to Congress and a member of a state lei'i-duiirr. wpre very different. In the latter case a minute local knowledge of the concerns of their constituents was ne-ccas-iry ; but in the former case the knowl edge required was less of a local charac ter. It was general in its object ; it rela ted to questions of war and peace, lor eign relations, revenues, Sec. The poli cy of the nation was settled, and the wheels of government were moving on. Where a number was agreed to of great extent, there was a better opportunity of selecting men of talents ; but, on the oth er hand, a body, if too small, was more liable to intrigue. The ratio of 45,000 would increase the present number of Representatives but one, and the present was, in his opinion, a sufficient number for the despatch of public business. A greater number would diminish responsi bility ; and, so far as public sentiment in the state he had the honor in part to rep resent, had been expressed, both by the old constitution and that proposed by the recent convention, it was opposed to a numerous legislative body. Mr. Campbell, of Ohio, stated the ra tio and numbers that had been heretofore successively adopted. In the first Con gress, the number of reprcsent.aiv es was 65, but the apportionment w.s made up on an uncertain ratio. It was the effect of mutual compromise and opinion. At the census of 1790 the number of repre sentatives was increased to 101, upon a ratio of 33,000. At the census of 1800 the same ratio was retained, which in creased the number of representatives to 141. At the census of 1810 the ratio was increased to 35,000, which gave the present number of 187 representatives. The first increase was 36, the second 40, and the third 40. He (Mr. CO was in favour of the number of 42,000 under the present appportionment, which would irive an increase of thirteen. This incre iv cut was small, in comparison with the progress of wealth and population. A great reduction naturally exposed the bo dy acted upon to executive influences ; and a small body must ever be considered as more assailable than a larger. He a grced with the gentleman from New York, (Mr. Wood,) that by reducing the ratio to 35-CGO the body would become too numerous. A medium should be preserved, and he doubted whether any number could be found less objectionable than that which he supported. The members of this House ought to corrcs a pond in some just proportion to the num bers of the Senate ; but it was very obvi ous that within a few years past that body had increased in a ratio altogether dis proportionate to this House. The question being about to be put by the Chairman) on the largest number, (75,000,) IWr. Keycs rose and observed th;tt hav ing proposed that number as the ratio, it was perhaps incumbent on him to state the reasons by which he was influenced. Each member would admit that his voice was not loud enough to be heard in the various parts of this hall. YVhesc busi ness was to be done, it was expedient that those who do it should be heard other wise it cannot be understood. This was one reason. Another was, thnt, in so nu merous a body it was next to impossible for the Speaker to preserve that order which was requisite as well for a due de corum, as the despatch of public busi ness. Another essential reason was. that it would reduce the expenditures upon the civil list, and be a great saving to the nation. The question was then taken cn the number proposed, and negative J. The next number in order was 55,000. Mr. Van Wyck stated, bticflv, his rea sons in favor of that number. His object was two-fold to expedite public busi ness and to economize the public expen diture Mr. V. XV. adverted to the rea sons that had influenced the trainers of cur Constitution to adopt a small ratio, hut contended that they were wholly in applicable at present. '1 he facilities of intercourse had so much increased of late that there was no difficulty, on the part of the representative, in the way of obtain ing every necessary knowledge of the sit uation of all his constituents; and, in point of economy his proposition would -avc S2,5C0 pCI. annum to the public treasury. The question was then taken on the ra tio as proposed by Mr. Van Wyck, and negatived. The numbers of 52 000, 50XT0. and -19,000, were successively put, without debate, and lost. 4 8,000 was also put and lost ayes 35. 4 7,000 was put and lost ayes 53. 4 6,000 was next put, end lost ayes 50. .45,000 was then put, and lost a) es 67, noes 80. 44,000 and 43,0C0 were also rejected, without division. The question was then taken on -,000, and carried ayes 81, noes. 7 3. Mr. Camjibell moved that the residue of the bili be so amended as to correspond with the ratio that had been adopted , which was agreed to. The Committee then rose and report ed the bill as amende?!. In the House, Mr. CameU i the question of concurrence ue taken by Yeas and Nays ; which was agreed to. Mr. Durfee spoke atconsideraole length I in opposition to the concurrence -committee of the whole in the ratio 4-,-j 000. Want of room precludes at the ! nr,,Pnt time nnv hut a very brief sketch ' r i,;c rAmrL.Q. Hn thought that an m- crease of the numbers of the national le gislature would not retard the passage ot wholesome and necessary lawsand it unnecessary laws were precluded, ltmigni ! be considered as a benefit to the country ; for few things were more pernicious than ! vno.-!mpnt5 in legislation. It had been I cnid that the room in which the House of j Representatives assembled was not sufii- ; ciently capacious to accommodate a j;iui j ter number than it now contains. On a ttuestion of this magnitude, he did not ex- ! . f" . 1 . pect to hear an argument oi im sun. Would it be seriouely said, that, in defin ing the n amber of the representatives of the people, a resort should be first had to the architect ? that representation should be dealt out by the cubic foot or the yard ? and the Congress of the United States be regulated by the size of the representa tives' chamber, and not the chamber to ! the Congress? Such a principle, he ! thought, it would be difficult to sustain. j There were perhaps no other nation on earth where the representative system : was known, in which, with nine or ten millions of people, the number of repre sentatives was so few as in our own. In the last three apportionments it would be seen that 20C0 was the only increase in the ratio and now, in a single apnortion- j mer.t, it was proposed to leap at once o vcr no less than 7000. This, he thought, i would be inconsistent with the principles both of policy and justice. In the earlier periods g! our government, the people were scattered over a wide extent of ter- ; ritory, and their pursuits were in a great ! degree similar. Hut, in the progress of our unexampled prosperity .population had i become dense instead of the humble 'occupation and simple habits of husband men, our people had entered upon every species oi" employment that ingenuity could contrive manufactures were ex tended, i-nd commerce, in its ten thousand forms and multiplied connexions, had spread over every sea, and visited every . . , . , , . necessarily ;iuuuu u imui-iuc tinu uuuu farious interests. A more extended rep- resetration, therefore, was necessarv now to do justire and protect their varied con- ccrns. than w hen our population . was scarce and our occupations few and sim j pie. There were other reasons. By com ! biuation, four cr five large states might carry any measure they thought proper ; and, although he was far from entertain ing or expressing any jealousy in relation to prcLcnt concerns, yet it was a contin gency that ought to be guarded against and there was no mode ot guarding a guipst it so effectually as by permitting .. numerous representation. liy increasing the representation, you increase the sym- ! pathies of the smaller states with the lar ger. 'I hey feel that they have a voice in making the law that is promulgated to go- j eni them, and thev vield to it a willing and checiful obedience. Mr. D. also ad verted, to the subject of Incentive influ ences, of which they had heard, and al though it could not perhaps be said they wctc now felt, yet all would admit it was prudent to guard against it. Mr. Randolph made a few preliminarv remarks on the impossibility of keeping apart power and wealth, which, whenever separated by any revulsion, seek a re-union by a tendency as true as gravitation, and as naturally as the sexes. It has been so from the begining, said he. Male and female created he them, and do what yen will thfv will o-r r too-ptlipr. T-T iron, to obcrrvo r W 1, IL-pH UU mav upon the present political prospect before us. He saw the old members of the confederacy about to be placed in the hark ground. 'He could see two cf the members of the old family cf the good old thirteen United States God bless them ! about to be he would not sav Iro- scribed but submitted to an operation by which they would be deprived of a moie .... ... ty of their representation cn this, lloor : And this too in the absence, and the ne cessary absence, of the w hole represen tation of one of these states. The state of Delaware, to which he alluded, had produced many illustrious men men who were eminently useful in the revolu tionary war, both in the cabinet and in the field. For himself, he was disposed to pay her all that deference to which she was entitled by her gallantry, ability, and, if he might so express himself, by her weakness ; a weakness, however, not in nerve not in the arm, nor in the head, but a weakness a weakness of numbers, when compared with the magnitude of other states. Mr. R. therefore moved that the fur ther consideration of the bill be postpon ed until next Monday week, which was put and carried aves 91. i TUESDAY, FEB. 5, 1822. No. 2, To the Hoard of Internal Improvement, is necessarily postponed. The third annual Report cf the Managers of the Auxiliary Rible Society of Ashville, N. C. will be published in oar next. -xgS2 No mail from Fayetteviile was received last week. The only excuse which we know of is,' muddy road?, as the streams could not have been high ; and this is an excuse, vc apprehend, that the Post-Master General would not pronounce v;,c.7. This is the third time, now, within four or five weeks, the mail from Fayetteviile has failed; once, on account of high water; and the two other times on we know not what account. li the contractor lias a suflicient excuse, we are satisfied ; if not, we trust suitable representations will be made to Mr. Meigs, so that the demands of the contract may be satisfied. As the writer paid twelve and a half cents to get the following ioetic effusion to us, we cannot in our consciences refuse to gratify him. We hold with Horace: Let bards be licens'd, then, themselves to kill ; 'Tis murder to preserve them gainst their will. It is published as we received it, verba tim, S;c. To a Eaduy tsLo once at dy ' Is r5.vr heart pve- engaged ?" My heart from chains of love is free, Hut ever ready to be bound; In Hymen's silken bands with she. Whose heart a kindred one would own. If yours fair Lady should be so free, As I have just own'd mine ; How happy, happy, should I be, "Were mine a kindred one to thine. - f C CCttt AGAIN : WHO SIL1I.T, HE THE J"EXT BJtr.SriJE.YT? This is a question that begins to excite con siderable interest among our brother editors, and it would seem, no little concern among the mem bers of Congress. Rumour says, that in the course of the present session, a caucus is to bs held at Washington to designate a fit person for that high station bv wav, no doubt, of savmq- the people the trouble of thinking for them selves. Indeed, the editors of the National In telligencer seem to think that the salvation of the republic depends upon a timely step of that sort. After deprecating the consequences that would follow from the election being brought into the House of Representatives, in the event there should be no choice by the people, they go on to say, "The only refuge we now dis cover from that danger, is in a nomination, which may have the ellect to produce a majority in favor of some one of the candidates. This is an alternative we contemplate without pleasure, but it seems to be unavoidable." Now atrainst all this parade about the necessity of a caucus, we enter our humble dissent. In the first place, there is as yet but Utile grounds of apprehension that the election will fall upon the House of Representatives; and in the next, suppcy it does, have not the people of the United States, cn certain contingencies, entrusted that body with the power ? As to the contest between Mr. Jefferson and Mr. Burr, such another is not likely soon to occur again ; indeed, cannot, as it i guarded against by an amendment of the con stitution. But it is a wily policy to paint in frightful colours an imaginary evil, in order to lessen the objections against a real one. "We are told the only way to escape the direful con sequences of an election by the House cf Rep resentatives, is for a caucus to make a nomination, or, which is nearly the same thing to elect him. The samc mcn - caucus, will act with i u 15 d and punty' hen they arc called upon j to act 111 a ccllsiii?ial capacity arc not to be j trustetl : t'hey are in danger of intrigues, and I corruPtion- "hcre is the consistency in all I l"s If Clinton cr Crawford, Adams or Cai- koun, could influence those men in the House, ! whv not in a Caucus ? And we would not be understood as meaninq that members of Con gross are not capable of corrupt influences ; on the contrarv, we think thev arc : but certainly not more so in the House of-Representatives, where thev are actins: under the solemnity cf their oaths, than in a caucus, where the constitution does not know them. Hut, we would be clad to know how it is that members of Congress are better qualified to judge who should be Presi dent, than any other intelligent citizens ? Is it because they have seen the capitof, and breath ed for a few months the atmosphere of the citr Or, are they better qualified to weigh the tal ents and merits of Mr. Crawford, or Mr. Adams, because thev have eat dinner with the one, or drank tea witli the other ? The abilities of pub lic men can alone be estimated from their acts and performances, and the- are not commonly kept hid under a bushel solely for members of Congress to peep at ; they are made public, and we at a distance can see them and judge them aa well as those who recline under the shadow
