Newspapers / The Raleigh Minerva (Raleigh, … / June 8, 1802, edition 1 / Page 1
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, - - y ' ' V 1 '! i" J -i2 -.,t' 4ri- MINERVA. THE NORTH .' t. t l J -CAROLINA RJLEIGH fP u b lib hed itjetTJJESD A YlT HODGES BOYLAN. nrfiirti itirv tiatl - rnrmnlt nnnofetf ta.ien the expenfes of living' were at leatt cat as they now are. There it howevrVj !dd he, one rc(jts2&i?mf', K H t'e- tfwenirfiw Shillings per Ytar." S A VING. ,Vdo not record feeing in any t th N. Carolina paper, the mowing in C-ngrels, on the Bill fo frying li. which hidWrecl, lnCrrafiE?Kijft.oT 01 die ferret M nf the heads .dey-t-neon, the poftmafter-gen. & att y-gen.&c Upon ihiVbill, theToofe- refoWed Melf tito a commute o iue n the chair. . - ' , Mr. J. C. SmUb of Connecticut, mowi n iVr hill. b introdncine the fpe- fcificfum to which each officer, fepatately, hiouldbe entitled, inllead of the foeiai Lm. reviving law Ped in 7? or. ,n' . icreafmir thele lalanea tor iitnireu ii which law expired.: by m own uawut i n f r I 1 - il on the i or Leccro T - : ?,hiB motion gave rife to a debase whicn continued till r oMock. Mr. C. Smith, Mf Biyard, Mr. .- fcuuw, wir. - uou-.u, Mr. Dina, nod Mr. CirrtwoW lupponeo me motion nf Mr. Altton, Mr. Gilea, Mr. holfon, Mf, W.ii.am, or or w-m. - - eovttniuenl Mr. Elmend .rf, Mr. !. Smith, wr. .uw . , . . - - -d R i . jb-.I-i"-' . . .. .. : TUESDAY, June , 1802. - You VII. NufciB. 322 thai hcrcrf.i. , Tne Hucta , .JJ accepted with ah f peciation m -'"g certain eftabliftied falariea, and ihey arVd optionally in doing (9 1 they hai oo reat' n toexpeft that their, compenfation wouhj foe increafed. ' The", cooipenfation howcr waa tocreafed, and the gtotlemen v. ho it prefrot hold thofe office w-cepted -ih a with a rational expeflatiau that the fala-i would remain aithey were when theycj into the office. ' Mr. Gilca obferved that neither this ni ton, nor any other ad the leaft caufe m dread the expenfe of the civil lift. A. duftioo of laUrita could have but Httle eft feft upon the n'atLnal xpeodimre, andsj. iacrefe orxlimiiimian of theft waj fcar; j:. . .. . . .ft Pt . if.. . rJ;--' ly worth contendiftg about. , ne wji catry hi vicWa of economy to greater f" Hand Mr Vatnum ow'-.ed it. Me - fl.i-.-.n n 1 17. m al. ; '.- the aijf.yW no me ncg itivr. . 1 , f ..r of the amendment, it was urg ed that fome of the falarita might be pro Urana others not i that unlef. the ameod went (h- uld obtain, geotlemuD mud vote o. nnealirig the, whole or noue. it waaaiio. houeht that publicity flionld .be given, to Iheaa, and that the actual iuuis gra. icu Ifii ufd appear upon the iacc ot tne Diu, fend not merely be referred to in a law puff cd fvera,l jeari. fiocc, and now rxtmot. Mr Bayifd ftid the propoGtion a brought forward by he coaimittcc, wore the appear ance of a veil, defigned to cdnceal the-tran-adion from the public eye under the pre. ence of continuing anjtxiling law, but in "aft, by reviving one which . wad at firft wro ora'ry, and which had already- expiied,It vai not fufficient for thofe in the majority, 6 fliew that the txpenlea of living were o'w at great a when the law was puffed. f they would act conuitenuy, tnty mun rove, before thtty vole for this bill, in its i-iefent form, that thofe expenfes arew tbev oppofed this law, as giving tx ravagent and unnccelTary falaries, taiTedt, JamoTeainDV-itrnalynatlaBor- trought their immediate fiienda juto office,: bom. they are now willing to feed and upply -id a degree whicn tney nave, uig natized as extravagant and prodigal, aud it the fame time to (hclter thercfelvc from public notice under an old law 'upon which hey had calt luch opprobrium. Mr. Bayard declared, that iinltfs they would throw oil this veil and act mgejiu- uufly', by meeting the fubjeft fairlyVand taking the .rcfponfibiljty upon fheml'elvt sV he would tote againil the bill, though he was Bot at that time prepared to fay, that he falaries propoled were; higher ihahvhe Ihould be . wilhug , to give. He thought lume of them, at Katt, were ; rtafonable and propter. ; He was williug" to enable the of' ticcrs of the government to live in tin ilylc and to entertain with the liberality of gea- tlemen t but if fome of them thole to hvt in "a penurious manner, while others were dilpoted to a liberal and gtntltiicaii iiitt liyle of living, he did not conceive, that the public was 'under any obligation to t liable the penorioua officer to lay up uiok money than the iScer who lives iu, that ttyle which is expected of a gentleman and a public chuiacier. He was therefore iu favour of the amendment, which would bring each individual falary diliinftly before the com mittee.' Mr. Ukho!fon vitL oppof-Jd to the amend ment for thd reafon wUicti the gentleman from Delawaie had urged in favour of it. He 'thought; it invidious and indecorous, by a vote of that houfe to point at a par ticular otSctr, and fay that he did not live iiite a gentlcmcD,. Hceleivia.''that tblio-'-creafe of falaiy was proper at the time it was made, and be now "thought; it proper to teie that incteafs. , : yMrP Jiuji'tt was of opinion th.at the quef tion mult eventually be Tdeifided by com paring the compeiilatioii of each officer with his duties aud expenfes, and as he thought the amtndme'nt oft'ertd the molt direti way ot coming at that ..coicparifun,' be Ihould vote for it. . Mr, dies (id he and thnfe with whom ht rjttd were iharged with incoulittency ij ujw voting Tor an iitcieafe of falary, T 1- run -' "i x lit iu 1 iu e t 1 . l.' . j-- -vu - 1, f. Ibices. He haa thtieroie 4U 1 .. I.'" '-''( m ben -p of.feJ toexoenfes of this Mr. Llmcndorf faid he would reply t fome reuaikb made bv the aVntletnan liom Delaware ( Mr. Bayard) becaufe be thoughtM thyfe remarks extremely iropropert ana unworthy of anv reply. He thought it did not belons to that houfe -to decide, 1 dJfcoTion of the merits of the bill and an earaination ot the items. 1 hough the a mendrncnt propofed is the moft direct and proper way-' of coming at each leparate queflion, thofe queltions may be reached by annexing a provifo naming, the partica lar falary propofe to be altered. He de clared that for his part he would not be presented in this way from offering bia opi nion upon the real merits of the bill. He did not thiik that the law propofed to be revived eftabliftied the belt poffiblc ratio of compeuFation for preXent late of fervices. He fuggetled that there ought not to' be fo great a" dif ference between the falary of the fecretary of the navy and that oil the fecretary of Hate. As great talents itiduftry and fidel ity are itquifue.in the former as in the lat ter, and. tic did not fee why the compenfa tioti fliould not be equal. He wilhed for a'u pppori unity to examine thefe queftipnV dirtindiy . -and uiiderftariditiglyi und he would not be Compelled cither to rejeft or to ador)t tbc whole, jn tnafs. If gentle xen would not meet the fubjet in the moft Jirectand proper manner, they would fl.ill be unable' toclftde the , examination de mauded. , . Mr. Mitchell was ,jn favour of the bill as it ftogd. - Mr. Bacon had heard no objedion to the rateof falaiiea eftablilheJ byjthc law of '98 ; he thctefure concluded that the 1 ate was a perfectly proper one ; confequenily, if he voted to incrcafe one falary, he fliould vote to liicreaie every other, one in elad proper (hould vote to dirniufh every other one in ex.dt proportion.- He, though he had feconded the amendment, was aftonifhed at iroin whether the officers of government were i tion, and if ht voted to diminifh one he geuilemen or not. He beleived they were gentleman, and' that he fMr. Bayard) h larded his own reputation as a gentleman by making the remarks. - . . . tj;f 'Jl. .... Mr. Bayard expiamca. ne win nc not fnrpnfed that i he- gentleman did not' underltand hlna He hadlalways found it extremely difficult to make him underltand .hehad not infinuated that any of the of ficers of eoverninent weie noi gentlemen but had merely referred t their coshpara live nyic vi iivri'is iu eu v nj..i'; liberality, and cultomary equipage. Mr. t Imtndorf wit lorry mat ne uao milunderltood the gentleman and proceed ed to remark, that there was a laudable economy manifetled in the bill itfelf as it merely enafted in fout lines, that the for mer law (hould be revived ; whereas, if the would be lac amendment obtained .heie additional expenfe of printing the- particu lar falaries f I'even or eight olficei. Mr- GaJJard did, if it was not the ob jeft, it was at halt 'the effecYof the. bill, in its prefciit f.m., to call a veil over the tran factioa. He was t r lofs to. underttand why gentlemen lo peremptorily ref uted te let' th: items of coropenfatioo appor upon the face of the bill, unhfs they wiie u-i will ing that the fubjecl fliould come fully before th.e public. The gentleman iron," Virginia (Mr. Giles) on a lute occafion was anxious to render comptiifation propoitiouate to ferviees .Graatiiiff that the ratio r" falaries, fixed by the law now propofed to be i cvivet, wasjultand pioper at the time of its pall age, how is it known and how can it be known without an examination of each, that the fame ratio is now the molt proper. Very confiderabe leduftions have beeiv made in the military and navat"eabl:(h meiitB, and a coiikqueiit rtdudtiou hab ta ken place in the dmies and fervices of the heads of thofe departments. He was Hot difpofed to concur in the economical pro jett ptopoftd by the gentleman flora New. Voile . He thoueht. in faitm"or infoima tion, rf which the" geutleman had fpoKtn, and which he lwd propofed to accomplifh by preventing a publication or the lums given to public officers, not the molt lauda ble fpecies of eciiuomy, nor one which it was worth., the while of the houfe to inculr cale. - - , Ctn, Smith thought the falaries rather too low than too high, as increafed in ( 8. -The offices were merely , enabled to txift ; they ought to have a liberal fup- pxirt while iu office and fomething to carry hdrne when they retire. ' Mr. Dana faid, gentlemen ateegregi. oufly miitakeu if they fuppofe, that by te j.-cting the amendment they can pievent a 'the reafona given by the geutlemab Delaware ( Mr Bayard) tor luppottiug the 'motion-. That gentleman, he faid, had declared that he would vote againft the bib, unlefs the majority would niakeconceflibn to that gentlemau and acknowledge that ihey aded imprope'rly in oppofing the paf Tige of ihelawT" "MriBacb5"a4'iiievcf ex'" rptdid to bear fach a principle avowed 00 that floor. He did ' not think it either ao honourable or an honrjl principle. Mr. Bayard rofc and faid that a friend had mentioned to him an expreffion which had fallen fiooi the gentleman from New. York (Mr.. Elmendotf) which he-iiimleU did no! hear',' but which he was informed chained him with having hazarded his own reputation as a gentleman by the reniaiks which he had made. He wilhed to know what the gentleman meant by that obferva tion. . , Mr. Elmendorf rofe, appeared embarrafi" meiit, and looked pale. He faid he might 1 have ufed the txpreffion, as he fpoke upon the fpur of the occafion without confidera tion t ,,biit: declared, it he did ule the tx puffion, he meant nothing pcrfonal or dif refptCrtful to the gentlemaoi Mr Bayard pioceeded : he was tcjually unable to underltand the geutleman tioru Miff. (Mr, Bacon) -.liepre'funed that no geixtlemaTCon that flopr would utter ft-nil mciiis which he had uot conlideied-or would be alhamcd to defend what he had advanc ed. He had perceived nothing in the cha radteror condutt of the gentleman from MslTachufetts which entituled Uim to affuinc the office-of ..judging uthec of the bunsr or huntjly of others. Mr. Bayard- faidy he (hould be govern ed, on the prefent occafion, very much by the coududl of gentlemen on the other (iJ-. When the law was palled, the then rarjori ty openly took the refponfibility upon them felves a clamour Was raifed, and a new or der of things brought about If gentle men now want the. law, let them t,ake it ; bur let it appear jto be what it really is, their own meafure, and, let not us (till be Compelled to fuffcr the whole opprobiium which may tefult from the meafure. t( gentlemen now think that the law is right, and that they - were formerly wrong in op pVirig world; and let them not attempt" to fcieen themfelvea under the cover of a law which was intended to be temporary,, and which has actually expired. It is fatile to utge, as lN B. This would fwell the bill to eight or ten lines and a primer would bea Knt at lone Jn nrintirip- it as Mr. E"," wa3 in making- his economical remark t buT would not charge as much as the expencas of Coiigieu would amount to 1a tbat lime. the gentleman from Virginia has done, that the prefent officers accepted their places With ail expectation that their lalanes wouia be continued they were. , It is to be prefumed that thofe gentlemen knew the I laws of their country, and that this aft was I- r ' - 1 -t- - 'ri. - , .1 to expire in icw rnonuii. 1 uc gcuucui.u from Virginia fays, that the txpenfe of the civil lift is fmall, and not worth much at tention that he is for carrying his views of economy to much higher and rdore im portant matters to the military and naval expenfes. How long has the (reoilemao entertained .thefe fentiments f It is but a (hort ime fince he thought it very impor tant to exteud hi economy to thejudicia ry depMtment, an article 'of economy bf which a tew thoufand dollars tare faved at the expenfe as very "many gentlemen in both houfes of the legjOatbrei and through out the country believe, at. the expenfe of the contthution of out government : He had thought it tieceflary fc economize in the mint cftabliinment, the 4etirution of which, inftead of being a laving, would probably be art actual lots to the notion, 'ac leaft to the poorer part of it. Mr. Bayard repeated, that he felt tio hoflility to the compeofations propofed, and that he fliould probably have voted for therii, had gentle men biought up tfie lurijtdt fairly, and of fered to make the meatuie their own. Mr'.- Duna o"blervedj that gentlemen te folve to confider the rates of compenfat ion fixed by the late law as pel ft ft in every ref-' pect, aud to pronounce the former admi. nittration infallible; He believed it to be the only inltance in which they had been, difpofed to afcribe that attribute to that admioillration. He faid if the gentlemen had no wifli to veil this meafure from the public view, it was pretty extraordinary that they would not fuff.-r the frpaprate propo fitions to be brought Up and faiily met. Mr. Grifwold. When the taw was patTed it was deemed neceffary foi the officers to employ their whole time at the fea t of go vernment, and in the public feKvice. If that fervice has diminifhed fince the 4th of March lanY and gentlemen can now be fpaud foi half the year to puifue their pti vate a.id profeflional bufintls at heme, there can be no pfopticty in paying them full fa-. Lries. ' " :11 -! After a few other remarks, the queftion on Mt. Smith's amendment was taken and loll The commiuee rofc ani reported the bill to the hottfe. MirlMif&friisS'tL iRd'ttTtH'Ttoo'ltv' that the iaiaiy contemp'ated by the bill to the attoriiev general was 5 OOO rlot'sis; th3t ti.ii falary had Wigina'Uy been .1,500 that it wjb tailed tiiit 'to a coo afirrwaiii, in confequcute of the war in Europe aud-tbe humttous prizes lo be decidtd upon in our courts, it was increafed to 1,400, and jS- " ually, on account of the increafeT duties of that officer, for a limited time, under the Oth and 7;h ai tides of the- Biitifh Treaty his compenfation was raifed, for three years to j.oco dollars. At this time he was obliged to rctide conltantlyat the feat of government, and his whole time was oc cupied in public bufinefs : that officer, had then piobably,. more bufinefs in one month than hchas now in a year this is evident fium iiicontroveitible fadl--that officer can now be abfcntficm the feat of goverment for fix months together, .w-tiicb would cer tainly notjifi tbc'cafe:..if.p,Ubiii!Ui:ufinef re quiied his attention. Mr. Dana thought', , therefore, that it would not be unreafonablc to reduce his falary to its original amount, upon the principle of apportioning com- " penlation to the quantum of -fervice render ed ; but he was not - difpo.'wd to make fo great a itdudion ; He would propofe ' merely to take uS Coo dollars which , Weie atided o')' fur a limited, lime and in corfi deration of -extra-ordinary'' lervices which were, 1T0 longer required, and for that pur pole would move that the following pro vifu be aniiexcd 10 die bill ; ', Provided, that 1 he annual cotrpenfation of the attorney geu'eral.s fhall not exceed 2,400 dollar. ' Mr. diet oppofed this amendment; he thought tht the falary' was not too great, ' aod that an officer ought not to be punifli- , ed for vifiting his family. The falary, be faid-', was nt now as high as that given to the judgts of the fuprcme court, who lpend lefs time at the-feat of government than theflttorney genera;. ,, . , r Mr- Loiundet diJ not tfttlSectn that the . profeffions ot econ my which that gentle man had made at the commencement of the, fefli)n,-would end in a pfopofiiioo to in. treafc the , falaries of the executive officers of government. He fiid thrrf was no ana logy between thefe officers and the judges -ot the fupreme court. The former judi ciary fyttem had bren found extremely defective and inadequate ; but in changing that fyftem, and in diminifliiug the duties of the judges it was impoflible to. diminifh aKo the compenfation ' fixed by law, with out a direct vialation of the conftitution, which violation that houfe had not former. 1 1 .-..".s,f ,;; , ', , . . ... ,.-V..iMwift fa., ,:, ijil...,,,.! '--1" .11. 1 mjlj ' in jr'. v v , Iny jTns iiti- t and . . niies titIM v of -that . peiu . - t re d to tii'rh pnrt: 5 the ref, s ijli.er and 1 i ' the lity. to " ititf, 1f 1: . f - J , 4 fit. 1LA 1 -'31. u '.:m Mm I - - - v. l , v 1 - ! i ... Z T-.. . ht 4 M I m IIJ Win III I in
The Raleigh Minerva (Raleigh, N.C.)
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June 8, 1802, edition 1
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