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if'
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R AL Eld if. Published 'eye r r M O N D AY by HO D GE BOY LAN.
Tiuenty-five Shillingfper Tear.
' From the GazbtYr oT Tiii U. SrAtss.
DEBATE
In the Houfe of Riprefentathes of the UnitttL
States upon Mr. Gkisptold's refolution to in
Jlitttle an fovt ligation of the report of the
Commlfjioners of the Sinking Fund.
' Wtdnefday, March 2.
Mr. Griswold faid that he fhould
not have troubled the Houfe with
any further remarks on- the refolu
tion which he had offered, as there
appeared to be a difpofit ion in gen
tlemen to ad opt Tt, had it not been,
for-fome Uufionsc which- had been
: : made by. the three gentlemen wdio
. . had been up, to the time of bringing
the refolution into the Houfe. He
had been accufed by.thofe gentlemen
of introducing his motion at the heel
of the Seffidn, when fufficient time
did not remain for a hill inveftigati-
: on. Thcle remarks he tliought re
quired an anfwer.
- 1 1 did expeel;, faid Mr. G. that the
gentleman from Virginia (Mr. Ran
. dolph) would, in jaftice to me, have
,. flnted the circumltances which pre
eded the bringing forward of the
n Solution 'butiince tliat gentlenian
h-, not thought proper to do ir, 1
i ' 'V " .-; ltate thefe circumitances myfelf,
it' ; as the gentleman is prefent, he
v . :orret me if I commit ah error.
,';e journals of the Houfe fhow,
. tf.-' :he report of the comnthTioners
of 1 - inking fund was tranfmitted
to t;- , Jegiflature on the feventh of
Fel" uary The rerSort was not redd
in this houfe, but ordered to bj print-
' cd, and in tto ct three days appear-
' ed in a printed form on our tables
From a ciirfory view of the report
he found ( to fay no more of it) that
Jir.ontainrid many errors and requir
ed much" explanation, and" he then
moved the reference to the commit--
V fee of Ways and Means, (of which
committee tlie gentleman from Virgi
nia, Mr. Randolph, is chairman)
and he communicated verbally, on
the fame morning, the objections
which he had dilcovered to the re
port On the fame, or the following
njaye'-he .committed, the objedions
which he then made to. writing, and
delivered them to the gcnrjemui
from Virginia, with a requel! that he
would.-confer with the Secret aiy ol"
the Treafury (who was the ailing j
i
MO N D AY, , Ap r i r. 25,
1803.
1 '
i)
and refponfible officer fljc--b oar d
of commiflioners") and ifpofiible ob-
' ' tain fr om him, a fatisfafto'ry expla
nation of" the report. The gentle
man from Virginia did accordingly,
as he underliojd, confer with the
Secretary, and in a fhort time after
wards gave to him certain explana-
. tion-a, which wqre not fatisfactory.
'H. therefore informed the'gentle
lnan from Virginia, at that time, that
ui fiu-ukl move a refolution in the
Iioute for - inllruclions to the Com
mittee or. Ways and Means; on,this j
fubjccl. And- having drawn up -a j
rclciiuionr which .was iuMTantialiy ;
the 'iauie will. thiri on the table, he
prelented ...it5s'.the gentleman from
Virginia for his information and np
' probation ; and that gentleman made
loobiectioli to any part of the rW'o-
lution except Uj two words, --i.'hich i
at his requelt-he expunged, r Here i',
Air. KanciolpirLnquireu wnat -'vorin
had been expunged ai his requelt. j
Ivlr. Grifwcjd replied, that the refo
hition originally directed the com
:4iiittee to enquire whether the com
, inifliohers of tlie4inking fund, had
i derftood to have refulted from the.
prefs of. other, butinefs. Manygen-
uemenwno nc near me, . can witnets
the frequent attempts which 1 hav
made, for more than one week,
introduce it, and it is no longer ago1
than yelterday, that-1 propofed it to
.the Houfe, but was voted down.
With how much propriety then I
have been charged with an improper
delay of this refolution until fhe heeK
of the-Selliom the houfe wili.xlecide.
I Mr.Grifwold further faid, that he
preiumed the gentleman from Virgi
nia had feveral weeks ago commu
nicated to his friends amHhe"Setre-
tar y of the Treafury the objedions to ,
the report, and that thole gentlemen
were, or ought to be prepared to give
every explanation," of which the re
port was fufceptible.
-But lince I am up, faid Mr."'Grif
woldfi wilj proceed to coiifider iome r
of the obftirvarions, which have been
madein anfwer to thofe which I had
the honor of fubmitting, upon this"
fubjccl:. The gentleman from Vir
ginia (Mr. Randolph) fuppofes, tliat
the commiffioncrs of the finking fund
have alright to claim, that the pay
ment of dolls. 1,287,600 made to the
bank from the proceeds of the fale
of the bank hhares,' was a payment
from the fund of dolls. 7,300,000
and that the remittances niaaVto
Holland in 1802 to meet the inftal
ment of the Dutch debt falling due in
1803 may alio be confidered as pay
ments of the debt from the fame fund
for the year 1802, and' that-if either,
of thefe Turns be added to the other
payments,, which are confefledto'
have been applied to the debt in
1 S02, it will be found djajt the whole
fund of dolls. 753oo.oco wa3 dv.ly
applied to the debt in that year. To
I thefe two claims, faid Mr: O. I mail
endeavour to give concife, but I trufL
latisiactory anlwers.
And in the firlt place, I admit tha.'
if the payment to the bark from the
falcs of the bank-(hares, is to be con
fidered as a payment fcom the fund
of dolls. 7,30000 jnr if the remit
tances to Holland U meet inftal
menis of 1803, are to be confidered
as payments of the debt in i82f then
will it appear (fuppofmg the tjhmate
of remittances to be correft) thst the
the commimoners have applied the
whole fund of dolls. 7,300,000 for
1 $ 0 2 to t h e d ebt i n t hat year. But a
flight attention to-the documents and
the law will prove that thefe claims
are "unfounded.' The fund of cloifs.
7,00,00 has been correctly' (rated
by the commimoners to have been
drawn from the following fources,
tliat is to fay-- - '.
'From the IntSreft arifTnn on :
. tSic do me flic debt trar.1-;--
, ft-n edjo' the commiffion- ";
' tT?7 -r . . . . .
?iof payment of dbts
urij5tr.at-!h-iT,.UBder the late
. - government, . - . ,
Fiom one dividend on the
bai 1: flock of December
32.G ,149 y.
j 0
1 "1-
the fa'es
of public
L'OI,
roin
Fr.cin import ?.r.' tn.ia.-
,79o7y 52
5,752,125
0 "I.'
. ' Dolls.
f r.T.i.- ... .i.tA
c co'inmiiiioners words)
appropriation by law
"1802
(to ufe the
the annual
for the year
under "the a 4 aforememion-
in faSl applied - the fund- of dollars
;-7,390,000 'to -the payment of. the
lent, ;, rc i.'lie. f-gentlemari;: rpm
" cd.' The acT aforemennonea in
the repprtf'was theacf to provide for
-the , redemption of the whole public
rdebt. By- tfiisTtatemerit it win ap-
pear that theoorif mi u loners received
Virginia thought tteords,fS.i the whofe fund of doll?. 7,300.000
- : ioundea ' nartli,f. anti-nnpjiea more ror tne year iuo2 icxciune or ine
X thahr v;as intended,- and propoled bankr:fllares, " and of "courle.. were,
;that they fiiould be expunged. And, 1 bound by law to appl'yi-'that year,.:
r faicl Mr. G.; . I accor.ding!yRf)tinited "-irthis fund to :t.hs; payment of the prin-
' ,;theniTro:iie jTioluticn.;." Tlieiea-j cipal and inter off of the debt.; The
::fonHYfn"tt
-,JI)roufehtJ,inf'ci. he, Houfe, before this '-1 mare j h riot only altogether difbnft
' da mull, laid Mr. G. be -well uh- I from the fund m'cueition,. but
confidered byth'commiffioners in
their report, as yill be fcenon page 6
of the report. ; 'It. . will , likewife be
l'een on the fame page, and on pages
K14 and t c of the report of the Secre
tary of the 1 realury of December
lalf, that the bank fhares were fold
under pretence of a law bf May 3 i ft,
1 7 96, and that- the proceeds of the
fale, agreeably to the proyifions of
thatTaw were, applied to pay a.deft
due to the bank, in the fame year. So
that the fale of the bank mares, and
the application of the money-has no
thing to do, either with the law of
"ihelafiiMinrrTshe redeinptionoT
tbfi debt, .,pr the fund of - dollars
7,300,000 which vas received by the
commiffioiiers under that law, as al
ready obferved. - Indeed the com
milTioners have, not ' pretended that
any fuch connexion exiltthey "have
acknmvledgediTr
dolls. 7,300,000 as a didinci fund ;
and I alt: jWhy have theyiioS applied
rt vrithin the year-, as thejaw requires,
to the payment of the debt ?
. 'i he claim, that tbe remittances to
Holland to meet the inflalments of
th-; foreign debt, falling due in 1803
are to be confidered as payments of
debt in 1802 is equally extraordina
ry. The law of the fad feflion de
clares, that " it fnall be the duty -of
the Commifiloners, to caufe t5 be
applied and piid)mry and every, year "
this fund of dolls. 7,300,000 to the
debt. The coinmiJlioners in thetr
report 'declare, that they have receiv
ed the fund for. the year 1S02, and
their advocates on this floor fay, that
they have applied the fund t the. pay
ment of the debt, yearly and in the
year 1802, .becaufe jhey have made
provifion for paying a debt, which -falls
due 1111803. Or in other words
the comnmfioners have drawn the
money fro n the Treafury and now
keep it iii the hands of their agents,
or in their own pbcketsj" and horieit
ly intend to apply it to the payment
of the public debt at fome fur lire pe
riod, and' this has, been a payment
and application of fhe-moncy to ther
debt in the year 1802. Tin's-, Jaid Mr!
Grilwokt is a mere evafion of the
law, arid it is ablurd to expeel; that.
. fuch expofitions, will go dowaeither
in this houfe or in the country. he
law, faid Mr. Grifwold, cannot be.,
mi (taken,. and I did not believe that
it wou Id toennTiTprefenred. ' J he ob
ject of the law was, to fecnie with cer
tainty the application of this fund of
th is Aim they were bound to "male
feafonable provifion for difchargin
tne foreign dbt of next yeanrTMrj 1
Nichollon faid, if the gentleman al
luded to him, he "was incorrect. Hm
had not faid that the Commiffion er fi?
could draw no more , than r dollarih
7,300,000, , he faid it was difcretion f
ary with the Secretary to, permit ij
greater i urn to. be drawn or not. H(
was to judge whether theftate of thi
Treafury would juTtify a ' large
draught. ." ; : - 7. .. ,
-Mr, .4rifWQdfaid;:hewai yiliin
to confider the cafe under the gen
tkman's. explanation, as the Teful
would-be precifely the fame.- By th(
law fo often referred to, refpe&ins
the public debt, in the 2d feftion o
the law, it was made the duty, of thi
Secretary of the Treafury, to advance
to the coinmiiTioners . the. Sinking
Fun dril I fuch payments, as might
be neceflary to difcharcre anv de-J
mands,.:acain(l the United-States J
as fhould become due at fuch rime!
and times as would enable the Com-5
midiqners punctually to comply with
the public engagements. . Admitting
then that a difcretion is given to the
Secretary, as exenfive as contended
Dy. tne gentleman, ircm Maryland
but which by the bye is not the cafe.
in the point under con fi deration yet!
. 1 1.1 . .
as it i aiunittea mat mere remained
more than four millions of dollars
m the trealury, on the lit of October
1802, I auk why was not the Turn,
which was wanted for the payments
in Holland in. 1803 advanced by the
fecretary under authority of that fec-
tion of the law, to which I have re
ferred r It the commiflioners had de
manded this advance, would the fe
crctary in his difcretion, witfj four
millions lying dean, have dared to
refufe it ? The'plea therefore of im
peirous necthty cannot prevail. The
law, in commanding terms required.'
that the. whole fund fhould.be an-
plied within the 3rear to the debt, and v
there was no necellity of breaking in
upon it. s j"-''"1"7 '-7
But gentlemen have alfp faid that
ihe ccmmiflioners were not bound
to apply the whole fund within the
Lcaiicnaer year, it was lurricient it
they applied it within twelve months
from the paftage of the faw, and that
might flill be done. But, faid Mr.'
Gi if void. ihe commiilioners have
already given the true conftruflion to"
tnciavin tneir report, and tne ex
cufe new oflered, is at war. with the
dolls. 7,? 00,000 in each year to fhe J reilOTt-fhe coinmifTioncrsfay in
as
the
t 1 . 1.1 1 n 1
peot, ana tne law is 10 exprtnea
1 v 1 -
to define witn perfect certainty
"duty of the Commilfioners. Nov; if
it is a good execution" of this law,
to provide only for the payment of
debts in future Xears your daw' is
onlyiadeTor the behefit of thea'ct-in-5
olTicer of the -bowl Yit-'COmli Jlon
oners ; for if -a provifion to neet a
'jvlyiiieiit' irr-1 lie next yerr ft." roT3e
confidered as a payment in the pre
fent year!, apisvillon to meet a pay
ment falling due ten years hence, on
the feme 'principle, is a good payment
within the year, and the only effect
c x prefs teims, that they have receiv
ed the fund of 7,300,096 dollars for
'the rear 1802 hot for one vear or
tweh'e months frbm fhe paitagc of.
the law The law required that the
fund. fhould be received in each war
ana mat it inouia oe applied yearly
ar.d 1 "t'ry ear. Now. faid Mr. G,
'"the gchtleinari Avhd'ofFered thjVcx-'l
cufe dees not underftand the mean-
ing, the coir million ers do, and they
although the Jaw paffed in May, the
were authorifed tojeceive the fund
of the law is, to place million of the ! ' the war 1 800, and having received
public money under th control of
tne eommniioiers or tne MnKmg
Fund without ihterefc, who when
callediupon to know whether they
have-applied it to the debt within
the year have only4 to anfwer, that the
moiiey has been well applied for it
remains : in their hands or . in' the
hands of their friendrco be delivered
ten years hence, to the public credi
tors, wliofe demarnds will then be
comedue. ' ' ; , ." - :
But gentlemen have; faid that tlli
application of the doHars 7,302,50
within the year- was impoiuble, be
caiiCc" tjie - f errtinances . to Holland
mufrbe : made in advance, and the
omifjlfioner t were':. authpri-rftr
draw annualljr'frorh the 'Jrdafury the
fum of 7i3oo,c only, and out of
it, it is ror the houle to declare, whe
ther they were not bound to apply it,
in the fame year - v . -
Some "remarks. - faid Mr. G. have
i been made Dy a gentleman from Ma
ryland Mr. Nicholfonj to prove that '
the balance of 1 14,839 . dollars "44
cents which appeared, to be entirely
unaccounted for in the commiffion- :
crs' report,' might . hereafter be ex-
plained, and a' i a u'sfactcry - account.;
rendered for the fame. ..r-What will
apptar.hei eaftcr faid Mr. G. I cannot
fay-rTTpcak only of what appears at
this time Buc the gentleman from'
MTykuuL has ..laid 3Tfet Woney r
mains in theii anils of agVhts, and to
hikriowi ed gejfeere is a fum (1 i 1 trcp
maming in protcfted ti ilG.'T his may
be the cafe or the, gentleman mr'y be
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