. TwO & A HALY OOLS. fERJ
A mm. Payable hilf Ye(r'). J
PUBLISHED (WEEKLY) BY WILLIAM BOYLAN
., rTVfO POV.t.A P' AN.
Vol. 8.
RALEIGH, .(n. c.) MONDAY, JSVFEM BE II 2, 1803.
No. 398.
CONGRESS OF THE U. STATES
, . Haass or. RMPtsssNTATitts.
f Monday. Oct. ai. . -ii-T ,
IMPORTANT DliBAJti-
On Mr. R. Grtjwild t refolation jor cailtrg on
the prefident for the tvidentet of title to, the pro
' vinsrof 'LoujJiaua. ..
- Xfr. R. Grihusld faid. that he had ob-
ierved by averting to the mellage of .the
.t .t 4 . nl ihns n lit in finf "that it MfCia
nirjiocjii ui-tui: "Alii iiiuauit luui 11 ti
- -expected congrels would lortnwim pro-
. JlflUv UJ W 1U1 ; lilt- -JI t-lWl auww ui
liana. The general fubjeft together with'
the treaties with France of the 30th of
- April Had been already, referred to a com
mittpp nF the whole houfe and made tlie
order of thatiiay, and he prefumed the
hrit otyect : wQicn wouia engage me at
tention of the commit tee wcni Id be that
rnrixrhfch-iTFiit He "dHno
however, think rh-it the meflage of the
prefideht or the treaty which attended
tit, farniffted 'that evidence of our right
'-to interfere-in4heg?)vernmentci.r Lpui
funa, which could juftil the houfe, in
paffinij any law on that fubjett.v
Me thought it-became ncceiTary to ob
tain further evidence our rifle. before
we attempted to excrcile "a juriidiction
ovcta couniry-ana-ju-vci! a.psupic vhu-'
K 1 1 K A r rliy In. ,r rrT tt-ottI
;' The only article faid Mr. G. which
rSIUlcS IO lUC IUIC. IS UIC mil fliunc m
the treaty, and it is thus exprefied :
Art. I. Whereas, by the article the
third of the treaty concluded at St. Idel
fonio, the Qih 'Vendemiaire, an. 9 C 1 ft
Ocfober, 1800, 1 between the Firft Con
fufof the French Republic and his Ca "
thplic Majefty, it was agreed as follows":.
" His Catholic majefty promifes and
pnenrrrs on his Dart, to cede to the French
republic, fix hVonths after the lull arid
entire execution of the conditions aiid
ftipulations herein rehrrive to his royal
high nefs the duke of Par ma the colony
,or province bfLtiuifiaria, with he fame
extent that it now has in the hands"of
Spain, and that it had when France pof
fe(fed it ; and fuch as it mould be aiter
the treaties fubfeauentlv entered into be
tween Spain. An.d-other-ilatcs,- -;
lilts anicJc 111 luc mil pin-w icv.vjim-
es, "what has, been y$U underft.ood, that
Loulfiana was a, province of Spain, and
. in the next, place it dccUr js, that by the
treaty .of France and Spain of rhe ift of
October, ,i 8cb, Spain has ftipulared thai
fhe. willi' fix months after the full arid
entire execution of the conditions and
' (tipulations relative to th'( Dulce of Par.
' ma, cede to France 7 the piovitice of
Lovufiana.': 1 he title of the Uriifed
Sfatc's therefore, depends upon the exe
cution "of thofe conditions and ilipnlati-ons-
For it will ba adnucted if France
has never fulfilled the. conditions, fhe
l.a3 acquired nio title to'tac country, and.
tould ie!l notjnng.v nor coul i ws pur
chafe. It bec,ms iiKportaat. Tntn, b-
,e congrie& proceed to k?,jfite'for the
tfuvernment of thd'c people, that we
fhotdd'ilfcertain yliat were the er.tent of
ijfie flipulatioUS in rel pecl; to the Duke of
1 Vhia; -i iah J whet her thofe ftipulations
had tJeenTexe.euted ; for on thii? our ti -
' -e uiiht probably depen i. A recur
rice'fothtfiriefliigc.and the treaty would
throw nojight upon thefe points, and
it became neceflary. to look further be
fore the hpulej'procecded to decide.
The treaty of tdelfonlq between France
iw Jspain of -the-1 ft of-C Jaooer,- oo,
had he? n rpfrrrpd to in the treaty under
cofideration ; it was the milrtinient by
v hich France had acquired the title, t
Hie had ever obtained que, and being one
ot fhq-titldeeds of . the. domain,., jt muft
',erpr.efutncfll that the government" of tnei
. United States, -hid been careful w ob-
uir, a copy. : j- -
That treaty was equay impoitant to
tVie vm Mn t.t thp lQifliirure. for
with.m nn(Tfltio ?f it muft be orefumed 1
jm the executive couia noi nave tua-
nted to the purchifc, and without tx
asfi?Trr?ri fW 1 wJflatare could 'not'de-
ide vvherhef; we hadacquifeOla tiKhttul
iuri .iirrioir.nver me tuunuv. iuci
it was neceflary to eftablilh in regard to
the title. That treaty contained phly a
promife to cede, the country in quedion,
as appeared by the article which had been
trahferibed ; and this only upon the per
formance ofcertain conditions- ,'ihe
aftual cefficn had not been' difclofed ;
but for the-uumofe of clearinc ud the
title the deed or inftrument of cefllon
ought to appear. -vv ".
TJjere was an additional f aft which
A: Mr. G. thought it 1 tnportant to afcertain,
whether bpamnad coniented tothe tram
fer of this countrv to the United States.
This fact may be., important in feveral
pomis 01 view, ti'opaiu tuiiicuia iu
transfer, flVe either admirs th.;t the con
ditions Have been executed oh the part
of France, of, fhe waves her claim to a
full" execution of them, and in either e
vent, it may be faid that the claims of
Spainhave beenexnngui!hed. -But if
fJaitdlaTfeTHqaftl
fer, it prefents a ftrongreafon to believe
that the coivditions h ive never been ful
fiUe.l, or rf they have been fulfilled, that
we fhiill becompelled to pofTeiTs thi? coun
try by force.-T he. complexion and ex
tent of our DreDarations to poflefs the
country muft in a meafure be regulated
by the ditpoiition ot pain towai Js:.us.
Wi'thihis view of thefuhject, hlr. G..
faid that he could not doubt the necefiiry
of calling on the prefident for further
information before the houfe' proceeded
to act. ' In doing this however lie would
ne careful not toafkan improper diiclo
fure of executive fecrets,'6T interfere with
the prerogatives of the executive J i"i .re
fpedt to treaties. Ihe treaty of Idelfon
lo he prefumed could be no ftcnit, as
one article of that inftruiaent had been
trankribed inter the treaty under ci-r.ft-daration.
Nor could tkc adual ceia.m
or any of the evidences of ttle be conft
dered as fecrets to btf withheld from the
legillature ; becaui'e without .polF-lTing
them, congrefs could never knoiv what,
legiflative. prbviftbgs were neceflary for
a full execution oi the treaty. He had
always believed that (he power of making
treaties under, the conftitution belonged
exclufively to the Prelident with the con
fent. of two thirds of the fenite and that
. kbLeioLU eaty-Jft'as unce tairiy.aad -cmfu -tutionalh
made and ratified, ifbecame the
lm-6f the land, and as fuch ever.y branch
of the governthent was bound to carry 11
into execution. But in order to d'o this,
it became nceelLry to know the extent
and effet:of the Treaty. And in the
prefent cafe, if it fnould be found after a
full examination of the title, that the
claim of France was- defective, and of
courle that the United States had gained
neither -territory or fnbjstts by thh quit
cljum -which France had civen rus, it
vc'oi'.ld be abiuvd, and a direct u'urpati-:
on for congrefs to pafs laws for govern
in Jt the country. -'I he call which he pro-
poled to niakc," would therefore he con
fined to thofe objects -which mult be
'Airinw.tlinna h thought it lieceiTATV
nrnn."r rlidf rk rall fhoulahe made on
tiie prendent for a copy ot that treaty.
. Mr. ;Grifwold laid, he wotId obferve
lo, that the treary of Idelfonfo would
rtobaDlafceitain all the fa&s which
known, .before the'tegifliture cat! with a
know Icde:ot the lubject, yjiciue no
the treatyjs to be carried into execution;
&.nd he would take the liberty of fubmit
Fe a refolutibn which was
confined to thofe objects, Sc.ii feconded,.
would lay it 6n;the ta'jlc. r
Mr. 7. Ranfapl rofe and faid,' I hpt?e
the hotvfe' will not agree todris Tefolut:
on I am well aware of thc cqnfec.uenc
c u-liJrh mav t"e!u!t from-mluiiiriK pa
pers from the executive before the tufi-'
nek comes fuMy before ths hodle. 1 he
lemahwhT bnr.gs it torwaru, t.
varied a little in me:itionm the word
fubieJ. I know it is a favourite exprem-
on with tne genueman. a i'ua
tenchant, of tome gentlemen tor mis cx
preiTion, vcill be an excule for my v;:ry
;nr. nhrctfenlnfrv. A conm fan' has
betv ,lent from France to Louifianavto
do that which may be necefiary, and of
which the gentleman is doubtful, and-to
tranfmit his proceedings to the4refident
ofthe.XMred-Sta'es-- it appear by this
rltrmvfion tsmakinij on the part of
France, to putts in poftUion of the ter-
ritory, 1 anu wijuic nwn . ,
as foon as we on our partrattfv the trea-,
ty. There is therefore anecelTity forour
making provifion to carry it into effetiV
There was in: the famous: treat? uwith
Great Bi itain, objeaiowralmojl ifinu
marable, '. Language of 'this kind was
then held lip in the houfe, itwa3 faid we
deleft' your treaty-:. A treaty now very
cjifiefent from that of London autfeaty
advantageous and popular is made with
Fiance. If we find it a good treaty, we
furely ouht to make provifion for it.-
Shall we take an exception to our own
title, when Franre has oledcred herlelf
-r - - r- - - - a- 1
for its valiilirv? Khalf xr refufe to be'DUt
fin poffeflioriCanany gentleman doubt
mat as far as rj&nc e can bcltow, we have
a titje?rCan"they donfJiut that France
has' notja, title rqm Spain ? Will our
paffing'ah acf to make provifion for. car
rying this treaty injo effect impair our ti
tle I If it mould herearter -appear that
Spain has a title, and that title is ur.con
veyed to France, it certainly will not,
It appears. to me that it will belittle bet
ter than, a rhockery,, to enquire at. this
time whether weHi'ave a title to this ter
ritory." So "long as we are informed by
the exetuiive that we are to be put in pof
fellion. and that he has Dowers f'oto do.
-weytertfrrori in
quire rartner.
Mr. Lynn. I rife only to obferve that
I think this refolution, has been brought
forward in difrrfneftful manner. Had
it been decent & rej peel ful I (hauld have
voted tor it. It implies that the execu
tive has made a bargain to which he had
no title. I wifhthe gentleman who bro'r j
this reloliiiion forward had flievvti a lit- 1
tie jnore-jefpecVfor tfie-executive I
haATrf )r .myi3wn part no obj&ion to the
docutnents beintr brouuht forward. I
think they fhould be brought forward.
Fvery prlon might have fcen the fadt
fro'm the newfpapcrr . I only rofe to men
tion the manner in which this bu.fi nefs
has been brought forward.
Afr.'GiJJarJ; The objct to be obtain-,
ed by feeing- the papers, requefted to be
laid4before us,, is to afcertain, whether
Fj ance, from whom we have recei ved a
cefiion of Louifnna, had derived from
Spain, any title to that country. Gen
tlemen lay that if is unneeeilat y for;iiFTO
know this ; that France has declared
in the treatv: that (he has an ' inconteit-
- T - .
ible title to the domain-and to the p !-
lemon of the lam territory. ouch in
deed are the words of the- Treaty, bu?
Fnince'has n. t left the matter here -'if
that declaration had been limply rhalc.
there wouraTTave been more irt the argument-
but the Treaty, has gone fur-'
thcr, and told us what that wcontefttb'e ti'
th iV? Ami wh;if is if ? All -the title of
France to tfie ceded territory is derived I
from the thi.rd article ot her treaty with
Spain, of the firfl October, 1000. That
atticle is introduced into the treaty, now
on our titbles, and is nothing more than
I a promife on the part ot his Catholic ma
jefty, To cede ti ihe'Fr cu h republic fix months
" nftcf the full and entire execution cj the cci;di
thus aid iTipul.Uicns herein, relative U his rjy
nl hizhmfslfje Duke of Partita, --the colony and
' pri''c ot ' LoufiLinn. &c. Our treaty
.with France, then goes on to fay, and
whereas' in "purfuance of the laid treaty,
ttodjntiiiidiry th third r title i the French
rep'ubttc has an- incotifeflible riTle,;..feS'
So that France no'v culytf lis us that the
do not receive at prefent any
niArp rhan th'jt firle to the 7 erritorv. -
es noevideneeet mlerweT-h-
the evidence on this fub;edt 1 deprecatcvi by lhc gentleman ?rom Con
ve the conditions of the trea- ne&icut ,hey are premature. A Trea-
has an lnconteftible title to the ceded t-'er;
ritory, but ihe alfo'tjeils us what that in
conteltible title is and it is nothing but
a proihife on the p;Tt of Spain, to cede
fix rncnths after Jhe fulfilment of certain
condition relating to the dukcof Parma.
What then do We purchafe upon the
face of the treaty jtftlf? Not a country,
but Ins Catholic majefty's-promife 'to
ce'de a. country at a future time and on
certain conditions. -.Now as the treat
UMi fiirniihes no evidence et tine, we
encTuire tor "tl
WTp :if. have
tv ltween France and Scairi. ever been
I fulfilled ? Have the fix months elapfed ?
' If fo, let us lee the actuate einon wmcn
Sniiii1 nrnmiit'd to make.' If hot. has
vSpciin ever waved the performance of
thofe conoltions and thereby yielded
the title to France f If Spain has eret
donci this, we afk for the evidence ot it.
j.et iis know whether Spain illents or dif
fents to bur takipg poflellion of the country.-
' -:: r - " -.'."
Fhis, information, we defife, not for
the purpofe of ratifying or tejeding the
treaty thisbelons to theprefidexifand
fpnate alone; But tor the Durdofe of en
abling: us tp: judge,Cwhat laws, are rie
ceifary to be paffed, or 5ther anyy fox
the government ot the country. V
" . But if is faid that the treaty provides
hat a comtniflaiy fliall be feat by France
ir thp rpHed rcrrirorv. to receive its po
feifipn from Spain and wanfmit it to us.
hit therefore of no importance to us
to knoW," whether Jtonce has any title?
Ifthe coinmiflary cannot receive ponei
fionjifm Spain, he cannot tranlmtr it
to US. J3Ut auppoic i lie ii!iiuyiic vi mc
Fit ft conful of Fiance.' is now law to
.Spain may not the time come, when a .
different Itat of things ...will exifc ? And .
may we not, bepre we pay fifteen mil li-..
;oas of dollars, enquire whether our title
to the Territory is fc'nd- ? s v - .
But a gentleman from Virginia (Mr;
Randolph) has faid fjiat. there is a. great
difference between this cafe and hat of
the Bririfh treaty to which he has refer
red. In that cafe, fays the gentleman
the houfe of reprefenratives laid to the
prefident, 4 fir we dettfl yr u-.-aty.' .- But
this treaty the gentleman layTiasbeiui -haiied
by th e countty as .ableffed thin
f TkTiWi people oj tfiii
country can have expreffed their appio- .
baiion of this treaty r, If is riow forthe
'firft tunp. been made public, and its
terms and conditions,, have been, here
tofore unknown,1 and ! cannonuppoie
that the people of thiscauntry wrlconfi-
der it as a blefled thing to pay fifteen mil
lions of dollars for a country, to which .
they get no title. ' -
Mn Smiliti I rememberJomethingor
the kind, that has been obferved by the
luft gentlemanrwho Ipokc, and it wouta .
he well fr lnnt'4nto it. It was faid UDon
a foi iner occafion that we had no right
to call forpapers, and l ilill think lo ; .
but we may judge bow far jf is neceflary
now to call for them, Mr- S. here read
the refolution moved to "call for papers
pending the'Bfffiflf treaty. ) I fee no pc
cafion for fo doing .in the prefertt,iji
fiance. - 1' .'.'-':
Mr. 7. "o'idrlpJu I Ihould be willing
to -call for papers were they neceflary,
but I lee ho re.ifoh for the prefent-reto
lutiori. '1 he prefident has treated with '
. the firfl conful of France for Louifiana ;
and "the fenate has ratified thetre,'ity. --'(
'i'li - French luivt declared that they .wyl ,
IV id a'.cpmmiHary to give poffefiion, 3
loon as the treaty was ratified by thefe-
nate.' 'lhat has a're uly been done, and
I can ftate to this houk ihatfhere is now
-a commilfarytliere on the part cf France. :r'
Mr,iihtty I greatly admire the talents
of the nen:!emcn who moved and lup-
ported this refolution, but I think it pre
mature, 'l'he fir (tot thefe gentlemen is
not only inquifitive but ittJef aiiablc ,
the fecondv ingenious ancranimated.
1 he gentlemen wifh to hae it afcertain
ed whether we have a title to Louifianaf"
It is very true We five not attained an
abfo'ute ju rilchel ion, becaule t'he terms
of the, treaty are not yet complied with.
'1 he gentlemen's inquiries are vifionary.
-Young as t am, and little verled in the
fubjcctrI am unwilling to enter at length -upon
it. The prefidcmtells us that tl
ctrtighfened government of France has,
on certain conditiops, and under certain 4
Uipulations conveyed Lotiifiana to thtf .
U. Stat es of America. The' gentleman'
Mr. rGoddard) afks wilt the people be :
content to pay fifteen million of dollars '
- not for a territory, but for a promife r
It was fliptdated between France and
Spain, .that Spain fbcHild cede Louifiana
upon ccrt-.in co)idititns to the Duke of
Parma -within fix -months. T acknow
ir tn be onlv an afTeftionyof the--
French that they have a title, and 1 con-
1 lets mat we
ty has heen entered into by which France
nas irariMcrrcu iuc iik"1 uy' w .
they fend a commitTary to deliver poffef-v
fion tothe United States.'Now if the
treaty is carried into-effed we muft have
uJegal title, and acquire poneliion. We
ought to do every thing in cfar power to
carry tjie; treaty into effeft--for we are
not fubjL-Svd.to nay a fingTe cent until
we are pat in ncfiecton. iTefuming up
on the good taith .0; the trench govern-,
ment.we may falely go on in making
the provinon. . 1 conmve.inai uiaars
ments of the two "gentlemen froni Con
nedicut, . with thetr abilities can be of ,
na avail. - ;-.' ; '-:v: "--
vt Mr. Tbatdef, The rentlettiin from
Pennfylvania (Mr. Stnilie') has com?t
it-
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