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t -r-: T i : 1 ''';--; '2- : ; : :. : " "., "; ; ;,. ' . ::' .'. "., , , , . .......... 7 T ?i ' '"fi " inf. -WILLIAM '' ;. .r."- congress., Mda.y, Oct. 24. , : ... - . IMPORTANT DEBATE 1 , :? Crif wold's reofutionjfbfi calling frtfident for the tvidenta of title to tbcfr0 intt of l.tu'tRanit. ..-.--A . Goddar A I hadno right to de mand, I had no rcafdn to exped a com pliment frotrv-th gentleman from Virginia-(Mr, Randolph.)- liut although, the gentleman is not willing to. allow, to the remarks which ) had the honor to . fubmlt to the houfe, when I was firft up on" this.queftion, the credit of ingenuity, yet as he has feen fit to beftovv no fmall attention to them, I t-riift the houfe will rJ..1,v m -n fn mnrrtnf. while I TP. vr,W- 1 hT(fitml6maii has been olea ed' ; to enquire after thehoftile fpirit, which - actuated rhc and my pouticat tnenaron n forrtier nrrafirtn whefi this fubied was " under consideration. . To what does thej gentleman allude ? Was there ever fir a propofition before this houle to acqqir.e Louifiana by force ? Is it in the recollec tion of, any gentleman that this country was deemed 10 important to tne unuea States, that any members othis htfufc propcl'ed to go to war to acquire it r Was there ever indeed a propofition to acquire it in any, manner ? I;anCwer there was not Look at the Tfiport of the fecret committee tnade lalt feffion and now publifhed Does it inti mate that it would be defirable to annex the iminenl'e country of Louifiana to the United States f . Wo, the project to ao this is tome novel But Sir, I dorecol : left at the laft feiHon of Conarefs that I faw the rights'of the1 United -States -on the banks of the Miuiliippi, myadea her honor infulted-a tnofl: lolemn trea ty infrared the deliberate wrongs and intuits which were offered toiheUnired States, I then was,' and truft I always fhall be, ready to redrefsi whether they arife upon, the banks of the MifTillippi, or in any other quarter of.the union judging from the littleinfor'rnation which wrs then afforded us, I mould have been willing to this.etid to have taken pofftfli on of the Iflaftd of Orleans, uhiil -our rights were f efJored, although no pro pofition of that kind was before usBut for this, is a wiili to involve the country in war ro be alcribed to me ? And that for the purpole of acquiring territory hot our own ? No fir, I repeat it, rio'difpo 0ion to. my know ledge, was ever enter tained of jicquiring thererritory now ceded to tpe Un it ed States by force, ?s the gentle'man-feeHis to infinuateThe 'war-whoop has: been raifed and adifpo fitir.n to nlufipe (hfT ITnirpH -Stares. inro 'war, and acquire Jhi$ country, per fas . uefas, afcribed to us -; but I "did not ex pect to have feen countenance -given to it here I then felt and now feel the jnv putation to be unjaft, at the fame time 1 am ready to acknowledge the exiftence ef a difpofition to redrels the wrongs of rny country But I admit the navigation ., 'of -the river Mifiiflippr, co bs vaftiy im portant, that great fae'rifices ought to be tnade to fecure it to 1 United States " :sM -fuppofe I admit tor arg'ument fake, " that Ve -were difpoled tfo go to war to le .cure it -vW hat follows ? A different . "courfe has been perfued A Treaty jtst now prefented to us, by which it is faid "Louifiana is. ceded to the United States, are ve' precluded frUn, enquiring whe ther any title has been acquired to the ceded country ? Are we not to be per mitted to enquire, whether the. feeds of iuturf! war are r.otfawn bv this ceflion ? 4 -dollars for the purchale ahd thll go to 'war with Spam for the p'ofleffion of the countrv? MavWs nctdefire. Gentlemen, to give us, war br peace ? jf the country fion, andlhat this ought to fatiffy us Had this Treaty left the matter in a fnn pie declaration on. the parr, of France, that her title to' the ceded territory vas inconteftible, it would have been a very different thing ; but fhe is careful to ex plain this declaration, and (fate to us clearly, what that title is, and fir, let any perfon read' the third article of: the Treaty of . Art. i, t 800, between France and Spain, and they will lee; thaf. no ti tle is therebyacquired' by France It is true, that his catholic Maj(3lty, promiies . to cede the country to t iance-J5ut when, Six months after the full and entire exe cutioh of certain ericlitions and ftlpula tions relative to the Duke of Parma.' Anr Vrarrc rcf1is hpr riorhf. arnilired in virtue of Aa article, to thd United States, which is in oher words, her right to' theKing of SpainN conditional promile To know whether this proniife is bind ing in Spaing we jaflc..to be.infned, what is this treaty ? Has Francr.emper. , formed them ? Is Spain (atiafied on. this fubjecl:, and has Spain made the propos ed ceflion ? If not, has fhe waved .their nM-fnrmanre ? In either cafe France uuv 'have acquired a good title But if they have not been fulhlleu, or waved ine nad none If none, none could be conveyed to us, and the confeqlience is, that we buy a conditional pro-mile made by Hpaia to France, to cede the territory in quef- tion and the conditions not fulfilled,! But it has been anfwered that we do not pay our money until we getojleflion I admit it, but fuppofe as 1 haye-before I'aiH -that Snain vieldinn to imoerious circumUances, does not at prefent refill our taking pollduon, is it pr no impor tance to us to lee to it, that right and ti tle are on our tide; - When tne polity uui oiinuuii - nil itiiui luauvit wtAj very ufeful, yet as the reptelentatives of a free people, We oiight to be fatisfied ,with nothing fhert of information that is official. Indeed if gentlemen who are more favored than we, have had accefs to thefe documents, if a majority oTth is houfe have information enough to guide, them, ought they hot to "be willing to, give tcf a minority, fuch in'ormation as may enable them alfoto form corred o-. pmin8 .? But fir, it is faid, that this claim tor qhformarioii, mJlitatel lag;ainft the Drincirles avowed en a former occafion. hby thole for whofe political opinions, I have the hihefi refpeel ; I mould be ve ry u'tiwiliingto impugn the UocUihe then "advanced j but even if it -fiiotrWji let nie lay to -gentlemen "who.. now refill the claim, that if the doctrine that this" houle had a right tp docaments to 'jude of a treaty, before they vote to carry itin .& "cneft" was- then correct, it is now Cf reel,., and. Ahat.lIj?Tor.m-iai)recg.t: dent. f But our claim now' is not; at variance -with the doclrjne then held. The Prelideut has fen t us this treaty bv MeflTage, in which we are called upon to take, the pecefiary meafures for taking pofleflion'of, artd preferving order and tranquility, in the ceded country Belore we rfb this, we wifh to know whether it is in truth ours - Spain is in poficifion it, did belong to her we afkvyhether fhe confents to otjr ex erc.ifing jurisdiction o ver it ; if fhe does one couile may be pro 'p'er, if not and we mean to have the pof leflion and to exercilejmifdi&ion, a very .different courfe' will become necefiaryj 1 will fuppofe fir, that this Treaty had lti pulated that Spain. fKbuld continue in po( leilion of Louifu-.n-.ror ten years antf in the tiiean time. eve'rvother fiinulati6n cf the treaty had been fulfilled, anhe of Europcrfhall ffame.adiiTerent drrjdiaTnmeTTiei calls' on i mult be had, let us: either acquire it by I. ' force, "oV if we purchale iti let lis have f Mhe peaceable polMion. We tequeit dp- ?umenti, if any there ara, which will Drove 'to us that France, cf whom we f' have nurchafed. had an? title -The T?'ea ( ,ty does not ihew this, but the rcverfc ', ' A gentitman from Virginia (fvlr. Uan : v dolnhV has fald. that France h&s declar - ed to us in the treaty, that fiie has an in ly" contcftible title to the doroaiivand.pof- i'dfion nf tbf ril'ed country. . I bat it is the hufinffs ot France to lee to it that Smiri jnav 1 e-aflert her riaht, and lay to ' 7" rr. i- . u . us, this was mere uiurpauon on me pun of France we never did cede this coun try tn hpr : a Dromife to be lure was made to cede on conditions ; thofe conditions were never lulhllecf ; you txmgnr wim your eyes open ; your title is unioana, you knew it at tne time ot tne purcr.aic 5 reltofe to us a country, of which we have been unjuftly deprived ought we nottoiee to it, that Spain can have no fuch claim upon us, before We purchafe r And fiiould we not, in,cr.fe of'aiuture conrcil vith Spain on tfrs fubjecf, pio ceed'wiih much more confidence, it we know that the title as well as th poflei fion is in us ? - But fuppofe Spain fhould wreft it from us, and application ihoul 1-.. mnrlc tn Frame for indemnitv-- Woul nnt fh aifn lav. tou bought wr.h full no tice of what our title was. Look at your Treaty -it fays we h-'d only a'comh'tioiul nrnraile from Suain u cede 10 us, ; lucn r. , ... 1 i .i,.., :u rule as we, has:, in vjnuir.yj umi viuuhh., we gave to you and yu paid us for no thingmcre. feitle thaynatwr with Spain fuch wculcj be tl41:ing'iai-e of Fr?.nc Suppolerfxr, we nad purchafed the I flaftd of iVfalta. of Great Britain ; (he told U3 that her n tie was derived from the I reaty of Amiens, and fhe called it an -inconteftible title, and offered to de liver to m. the potfefiion .;, fiiculd e be fat1ffd with' this, or mould we notca'l for that treaty, atV. lee what were its con ditions and flipv.iations f ' I truft we fhould ; and what ifiCerertteis there be t wrpn t We tivn cafes ? In' this cafe there fore, 1 contend it is highly proper that we fhould fee the documents, it any dure are, wnicn prove tn it r ranee naa any title tn the ceded territory ; tientlenien have taken various methods'to get fid of this claim ; oncgentleman refers us to newlpepcr information ; the learne.d gen tlem:.rt from Ncw-Yorl has referred us trr-whaHswdl kne-.vn thrcr.;hoxlt all Europe j fuppofe wit ti ail due numiuty;. we acknowledge our .ignorance of whaC J fawpll known in Eurone i what fol lows ? j Vhy, 'tkit::eJiave niprejided or tne inioriiiuuu,ii; wc nuw icck., su able usto foim corred opinions on the fubjett before us ; '' this gentleman and nis rnenat.irouj vuguua nave any un dertaken to tell us-ajwut this Treaty ?h?rh wifh to fee. and I fhould have regretted that the wof d 4 foanjiria had two learned gentlerri en ah ' oppdttuhiiy to difplay their information 6t i this lub- leAiiWKn' ' I mild hnnMe :.t & hilt "a fmatl hafirv on which trt reft fo'lareea ,UpcrtrudurGj a) they have created ; us to make laWsto take nofleflion of, and govern the cOuntry-We then enquire, does Spain cbnlent,- or docs flc refute to give up the poffcflion ? h not fuch inqui ry proper and neseirayv and may it not be made wiihourirenching on the Trea ty making power, which .belongs to the Prefident ;md .-'.enate ? I. conceive it may But , the gcjuleman from Matylantf, Mr; Nicholfch, has faid that it is only, a qucflion r.bout a.lit.tle time which may be lpt nt in er.acling ihc neceflary laws.' an J if wc never get ppficHIori,' it can do no hurt ; . but. 'L conceive we fhould make a ri jiculous.ficure in cn-afin2 laws for t foreign country :..J - governing' popkJ who have noconnedion with ui: - As to thelpccific motion ofthegentleinanTrorn KTcw-York (Mr. Mircheli) to oof! none the further con fi deration nf t bis queflion until Mnv ntxt. it is finwular indeed. We rail for information which we deem j-necefiary to enable us to acf with under- Handing; on tht.i lubject ; the gentleman is good enough to by to us, att-firlt then you .lha l have the intormuiiofi ; a fi:ir,ulyr favour this.;; I truft this motion will not prevail, but that the original rc folution offei ed by my colleague will be agfeed to. "" ; Mr. 'Nlrfclfrh I fhalUotef or bne part of 'he rifolutioh ; which goes to ' cer tain whether the executive is in pcfiefli on of proof of the content of Spain. I think they can prove this, and I am anx ious that it fhould be dope. , ' " ' Mr. Elliott. The treaty of Idelfonfo, was a feci et treaty I believe neither the ccnlulr.or the king of Spain, could dif; clofe it without a breach of faith, if, thereforeras it was a private treaty, the prefident .may have had only private in formation of the fact, which in fuch cifc it might be impropi'fbr him to difclofe. A divifinn of tnehueftiori on the laid motion was now called Tor : W hereupon, I I he hrit rtieiiiber msreof, peing again- read, in the words following to wit: ' KclolvcJ, '1 hat the prefident of trie United States beTequefted to cauf'e to be l.ud before this Houle a copy ot the trea ty beiween the French Republic and Spain, ot'the 1 ft "bf Oclober, 1 800. lhequeftion was taken, tnattnenoure do agree to the faid firll member of the motion,. -',., And refolved in the affirmative The : And Mr. Speaker declaring hjmfeif with thr vpa. 1 1 (rmrtA membet of the faid motion being again read, and emended at the. Clerk's table in the word following, to .wit i 1 ogemer wuii ct v 7- mcnt of ceflion fromjipafn, executed if! purfuance ct the lame' treaty conveying Louifiana to France, if any, fuch i juiltrU ment exifts'.') , " . 1 ' " The queflion w?s taUcni that the Houfe do aeTee to the f id fecon'd mtmber bt the motion 'as fo amended, And palled in the negative. v' 'j he t hi xd "'member bf the faid mbtion being again read, in the woids following, to wit:' ,:'' . -" - Alfo copies of Aich correfptmdence between' the- government of -'the United, States and the government 01 Miniiter of Spain, f if any fuch correfpehdehee has taken place )" as will fliow the alfent -or difleht of Spain to the purchafe of Louifiana by the U. States.', - . rJ")ic queflion was taken, that the houfe da agree to the faid third member oi the motion, ' ' - v ' '' - ' And pafTed in the negative. . I he fourth and laft member 01 the laid- motion beinct aeaiii tead, in the word 'following, to wit':. ;.,. ..." ;. 'Together -with copies ot lucn otner documen'ts as may be m the department of State, or any other "departm' nt of this government, terUliftg to afcertain v la ther the "United Stares h-we in facl j ac quired anyjide to ti e province ot Eoul ana by the treaties with France, cHhe thirtieth .of pril, . one thoufand eight hundred ana ih'ee.' . . I he queflion was -taken tha' 'lurhcifd do agree, to the laia fourth and i. menxr bcr of th e mo ion, And pafl'ed in the negative. " ' . Aru.ilier motion was then made -r feconded to amend flie laid uioiioi. ' 7 . .ulliiiK to the eii l of the tin' mmt r thereof, :W agreed to the houle words following, to ui' ; . . . -toge'tieTlimhTTooflhy mftru mcnt 'in poHcllion. rt the Executive, fhcwiiif.; fttat the Spr.nifii government hit" . ordered the province of Loulfnna tbe delivered to fhe Commiflary or other a gent of the French government. - And the qujfiion'beinfi takcn? that the houfe do iagree to the faid amendment ' to the motion, ' . . '. It was refolved in the affirmative. And then, the main qusflion being put, tha the houfe do agree to theiaid , motion, as originally -propofed, amend ed jo rend as followeth : ' . ' 4 li efolved, that the prefident of the U. States be requefted to caule to be laid before tin's, houfe, a copy of the treaty between the French" K epublic and Sain, ot rhe, firt of October, one th.cufand -e';'K hu'udi-d TogethcTwilh acopypf' any in:!rwnici;.t in pofrefliohof.theexccu live, llicwinth.u the panttn govern nieirt jias ordered ?he province cu Loui. liana to be delivered to fhe Commiflary or" other agent ot'theFrcnch govern mcni.' ,it '"';;;'; . " -.'1 he yeas -and nays being demanded -fcy one fifth of the members prefent. " Thofe who voted in favour of the mo tion are- : - , :" , , , ' f I.ilm rcher, William Blackledge, hvilliam Chambcrlin Martin Chitten- dci. C'.;;front;:iageffrihoT;ias WaiOorpe; 1 Matrlicw Clay, John C'oton, Samuel VV. Dana. l(1in"l)avehpor:,V homa Dwlg! t, Ij.hn Earle, Petei Early, Cal vin Goild'i.fd, I'eteffon Good vya, Tho mas Griffin, O. Grilwold, R. Grilwold, Seth llaftings, Daniel Heifter, Odtid Holmes7. David Iloucch. Berjiiamin Hu- gcr, 'Sjunuei Hunt, Walter J nes, Wil liam Kennedy, jofeph Lewis, juntos Thomas Eeu is, tienry , l.ivingwon, MaltheW Lyoiu William M'Creery, Nahum. Mitchell, Nicholas R. Mrxjre, Jofeph IMJichoirou, lhonr.as riater, oarnuci v. rurviancc, julvu ivj.iiaiwa, Caelar A. KoUney, EL3UU Koor, joinua Sands, John Upttorf bmitn, jonn amnn of New-Tprk, John Smith of Virginia! William stedmana James-otepnemon,-. Samuel T?ggart,,afnuel- Fenney, Sa muel I hatcherJJavid"' '1 hotnaV Philip U: Thqmpfonr John '!"i igJofeph B. Vafnum, Peleg ?.Vadfwo--.LemiJel W.JHi'i-tMt.N Marrivsdnk'P Will lama" YleA. iepn vvmtron ana, 1 noinis vvynns. 57. Villis.Alftdn, junior, Nathaniel Alex ah'der,' IfaaC Ande'nbn' Jpayid Bard, GeoVge Michael BedjilgeK, ! John Bdyle4 Robert Brown, William Butler, George W. Cam-bell, Levi Cafey, Jofeph Clay I Frederick. Cpniad,1 . Jacob Cl-owning- fhisldy-Richard Cutts, John Daw(on v
The Raleigh Minerva (Raleigh, N.C.)
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Nov. 28, 1803, edition 1
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