. .. "'t:: ry, iV ; -1
ii , ' - " v- . vfe V ' X-: VXS'7 -- , C r ' v-'-', ' .. , ' .. , '
Wb "Qaietiei - i 1
' .f i ,. k ' ;
. - - - J 'v n
rare the PUnt ef fair deHgitful Peace, 1 " v ..,
- ' , . . . Uowrp4 by Party Rage, to Ue like Brotbera." . , ..... v , . . j - - - ' ' " f ' ' 'jj
- -- :- ' J- : " ' ' ' " ' ' I . ' -. ! ; .,. .-' , f.
rV . - ; Monday, November 7, 1803 - ' ' ' V ' 1 " No. sis. ,
4
i:1J
1
bo:
it;
1;
3
(Till'
I
, a Rtprefent&tivts.
Ameidment of the Conftituiion.
Mday, Oft. 2v
ufe iefolvd itfelF 'nto a
of the whole on' the re-
The H
Sttons f amendment to the coufti-
Ifr, Vdrn'um in the Chair, -t
ThtrPrt (which was givsn in :
jjr Pvvsox obferved, that at i
the time of the adoption of the con- j
ft-UntiM, that part of it wViicb , r.
hteil t9 th t'eftion of a Prcfidrnt
ind Vice-Pf8clcnt had been object
todtoj ni evils-likely to 'ccp
hid ken freften by fome gqnfle
xnentt that day. Experience had
Jhtwnthiit they were not miftaken.
Every jjentlcraan in thtt houfe
knew the fituation in which th
country had been pbced hy th con
trovertcrf ele&ion of, a chief matjif"
trate, it wis one which he tru ftcd
would never return. It had been a
ffcj& much rcue&ed on hy h
pjaplfi, and bv the State. Legifls.
tures, feveral of vhich had declared
their apprrbatin of the principle
centinad in thsiefolution reported
by the coinBjittee This houfe had
two vears fx nee ratified a firnihr a
inendment by a cor.ftuun mal ma
jority f two-thirds. At that time
ro oVjsctions .vere made to the a
Eifndment. All the objaftion then
jnede was on account jnfkhe latencTa
ofthrdayand thinnefi of thehoule.
Mr. Diwfon canftdere'd it unnecef
fary to make any further remarks at
-4hit timet as he could not antici
pate any- objections that miffht be
r?eH. He moved that the commit
tee fiiould rife and report the rcfo
Tution without amendment.
Mr. j. Clay, though in favour
of the principle of the amendment,
was of opinion that, as to fome of
its parts, it reuirid alteration. He
therefore moved '- s
" But if no.pcrfori have fuch
majority, then the Houfe of Repie
lentativfs fhah immediately proceed
to chooie by ballot from the two
perfons having the .grdateft number
of votes, one of them for Prafldent.
Or if there be three 'or mere per.
fans having the greatcft number of
votet, then the Houle of Reprefen
tative fball in l,ke manner- from
the perfons having fuch an equality
of vote choofe the Prefidtnt r if
there be one perion having a greater
number of votes, not being a majo
rity of the whole number of elc&dra
appointed, than any other prrfons,
and two or more perfons who have
an equal number of votes one vith
tha other, then the Houfe of Re
prefentatives OijU in like manner.
jTomamona fuch perfons having the
wme number of votes, choofe the
rreGdent."
Mr. G. V. Campbell was in fa.
your of the principle contained in
theamendm-nt. He confidered it
to be tbe duty of that hnufc.in mtro
ucmg an amendment to theconfti
tution on this noint. t
he people the benefits of chocfing
iae frefident. fo as to nriMnf
bv ?nA'n 0l thcJr W,U prefTed
by eleftorschofen by them ; 'reforu
lH to leg.flativc- interpof,tion only
iK, , U1" arv ca,cs' and when
'sfhould be rendered eccffary,
nuardmg the cxercifc of legiQative
c'm' thofe onlV fhouW.be
toir -.fleSiflatlv caion who
W ng ev,dencc of enjoy
M ' p nfidcnce of the people.'
. r-; C, r 1 s w old laid it was vei
d'R ULU it was very
Port nf ' yi'-tai, imr
1 i the amendmrnf mKrm.A k
the
w.iwvu y
Hcntlernsn from Pr,r,rr,i.:-.
bv K
UBitvllld.'
'-iy nerincr it n-iA .l:
i
vh-rl 1? mining, therefore,
beiiT miftbt perhaps
itT .If.ne.Aaken,.
cs Principle, and implied
WrdT Wn,C,h hC Had ncvrbeforc
cal t1 C ccmnty om which
Jv WH WoWQ' t eve-
tlon ;wCr thatrunder c cbnft'itu
Cive f' b1 ftand'.the vote.
r5kt c Prcudct m this houfe
and not accnrH inn
K n:
oiaiea.
3Jpnty of the members of tfc.
7
aol
bodv. Th. .
that theeleaion fhall be proeeedi
with as pointed out by the confti
tution.; ftut the prefent amend
ment varies this mods, according
to which it is t ba made without
ref peel: to flates. ' Of eourfc a majo
rity of thn members are to decide.
He fubrnittedit to ntlcmn, w ne
ther they were willing in this way
to facrifict the insert lis and rights of
he fmailcr "States, If this be the
mtention of centleiaeh, we ought
to laavo time to deliberate on th fub-
1 . A.
jpQ:, before it is pr?lTe to a" deci-
fion. Tne frehtleman From rnn
tylvania will Explain whether this
be hfs intention, v. ' ;
Mr. J. Clay begged leare expli
citly to Mate, for the fatisfaftion of
tha- Gentleman from Cdune&ieui.
ihz 'it was not his intention to
change that part of the conftitutiorj
Which prefcribed that the ejection
(houtd be by Sfates ; and if it would,
nduce the gentleman to -oto for
tha relolution he had moved, he
would add the words of th confti
tution, viz. - i ' , ' ' -
' But in choofing the Frefident,
he votes fhall be taken by flates.
the r'eprefentation from elcfn Mate
having on vote a quoruta for this
ourpofe. fhall confift of a naftmber
r members from two-thirds of thr
States, and a majority from" two
thirds of the States fliall be neccfla
y to a caoice.
t
Thefe words
vere accorainfflv
added. ' .' ' ' j '
,Mr. DA'a-jo'u obferved that this
propontioh had been fubmitted t
ke feleft committee, Tho had con
fidered it more-. objectionable t la f
that reported. ' Their objefX v 3S t
.innovate as little as pd'fTibie on thr
conflitution. A grflat' part 'of i
referred to cafes fo extrcieiv remote
tViat it was not likely to happen.
The only material change it madr,
was to reduce the nuaaber of per
fons from whom, a' choice fhould br
rhadc from three' to two. At pr?
fent the ,clccljon for a PrcHdcnt anc;
Vice-Prcfident was made from thr
five higheft on the lift. As, ac
cording to thapropofed amendment
a dehgnation.ot . the nerfons voted
for'as Prefident and Vice Prefitienr
;vas to bs made, it c6nfid.red
that by Pivinr ?he three hieheft
numbers to the Houfe of Repre
fentatives, .from vbich to 'chbolc ;
rrenaent, ana ttir: two 'hiphelt to
the Senstr, from which to choofe a
Vice-Prefioent, He fpirit of the
conititution wou'd not be changed
He hoped therefore the rennrr of
the commit :pe would, be agreed' to
He believed, it comprehended al
cafes which were probable : and he
rurtner Deueved that if thev foent a
month, tney would not devifc an a-
mendment that would Drovide for
an p;oui are cales that may happen.
Mr. Cloit on gave his raj fons
at length for favouring the amend-
ment orrsrea Dy the gentleman from
PeDfylvans2 (Mr. Clay) He had
indeed he faid, prepared an ajnend
mentto the fame effect but was an
ticipated by that gentleman': If it
were in order,5 he would offer it as a
fubftiiute for tlrat amendment. He
then read it in his place. , j,
The Speaker faid it was not in
rderto receive the amendment of
the gentleman from Virginia, unlefs
that of the gentleman from Pennfyl
vania was previoufly withdrawn.
Mr. Gregg faid it was impoQb!e
fully to comprehend the two pro-
pontions offered barely by hearing;
them read. Amendments to the
confiitutiSn were of great impor
tance. He felt at a lofs how to aft
m the prefent i'nflanet not clearly
undei Handing refclutions pro
psfed. Ke wffhed every gentleman
who had formed in his mind an eli
gible propohtion would now bring
it forward, that the whole misht be
printed. ,
Mr. j. Clay laid j as there exi fl-,
ed confiderabU dirference of opinu
oh, he fhould withdraw his raoti6n,
m order to move that the committee
fhoiild rife, in order to move a re
commitment of the report of the Se
lect. Committee.
Mr. Njcho L s ew fa 1 d tba t Be fo re
the qweflion was taken on the rifrag
otthe committee, he wouii add an
atnendraent to the refolution of the
felea committee. It was his opini;
vii tlat the queftion of principle
fhould be fettled in the houfe ; i
trx to. meet the approbation of the
Houfe. , 1
Ir would be' remeihbered that the
Houfe were chofen bv the people,
and would in.theiele&ion they made
exprefs (he public will, as- well as
theeleelcrs themfelv-s .The feel
ing's o.f the one would be in uniforj
with thofo of the other, and none
would be found hardy enough. to vi
olate iho, public featiment. ' He
iherefora'moved to ft r ike out from
the repot t f the committe, all
fhat part cf it, which confined' the
chdice to the three highaft, vis:
4 ?nd if there (hail be no fuch mi.
jorityi the Prefidcnt (nail be chofen
from tno kigkeft number, not ex
ceeding three, on the lift for Prefu
defct, by the Houfe of Reprclenta
,tives" and infert, ia lieu thereof,
the following words : "and if no
uch perfdn hve a majority, then
the Houfe of Repnefentatives fliall
immediately choofe a Prefident from
tfnone tn9fe perfons whohavi keen
votej for ts 1 reiiqent.
Mr. DaWson fa,d that when the
nrlema trrn Miryland had hrit
moved the appointment of a commit-,
tee, he had 6ted again it it, and for
the very realon now aiugned by
him., As to the propofitions at pre;,
fent offerrd, they had been feverally
; . fT"cted on by tbe felfcct committee ;
7nd if referred' to that committee,
he houfe ought, in the f.r il in ftahce
to decide the principle. A to the
amendment offered ky the gentle,
man from Maryland," it was fcarcelv
necefory t mke a fingfe remark
upon it,- as the tfVufe was difpofed
to reduce rathet tnaa to extend the
" umber of '-.perfons from whom a
choice fkeuld made. If adopted,
't wtll give the Houfe of Rerefen-
atives a rignt to vote tor 176 per
ions, as' no candidate mignt have
more than ne vote.
Mr. N 1 c 11 o lso n believed the
vropofitioi of the itleft committee
would redune tham to the fame fitu
uion, as if "he 176 votes were giv
tn. M. N. faid ho waacitfo an
xirus hat his amendment fhould
fucceed, as that the principle fhould
be" fixed in that houle fome way or
othar ,
Mr. Gcsdaro faid, though he
would not pledge himfelf to vote
for the propofed amendment in any
fhape whatever, yet. he Was tn favour
of the amendment offered ky the
geotlemari frm -Maryland. He
thought with him, J.tkat there wjs
'na great danger in the latitude aL,
lowed tke Houfe of Reprcfentatives.
But the pnncipal reafon that ape
rated with him in favour of the a.
mendmsnt ws that.it extended the
right of fuffrae in the Houfe of
Repr'efemaii ves, and increment the
-power of the ieaa'l States. As. he
, conceived, the original preposition
went ef?ctually to impair the rights
of thr fmall Stata ; but the a
mendmer.f of -the gentleman from
.'Maryland h?v;ng this tiJel. as ht
tie as pfr iiinie. he ijncuid vote tor it,
Mr. '-Sm:l4x would wifh .one
principle altered m the; report oi
the feled commitiet, vz. that par.
which confined' the slcihoh of Pre
sident to the three higheft nerf. a
voted for. It was iajpfTiblc for hu
man wifiJorn to provide for all cafes
tHat occur. Their time was not
well fpent in providing for cafes
extremely remote. He had no b
jVct ir view, but the defignat' of
ofEce. ,, A'ld tbe more hsnple the
propofihoft, the more likely they
were to obtain this objeet. His idea
therefore wis to leave tihe caoflitu
tion as it now flood, fo far as relat
ed to a choice being made from the
five higheft, and only change fo far as
related to r designation of the office.
Mr, Elliot hoped the amend.
men of the gentleman frosn Mary
land would not prevail ; and com
ing as he did himfelf from a fmall
State, he trulfled the, houfe, would
pardon him for affagning his reafons
for that hope. He felt confidence
in the Houfe of Reprefesrtativer, as
well at. the gentleman from Connec
ticut : but he was of opinion that
their.difcretion ought t be limited.
The amendment wilf give the Houle
of Reprefentatives ther unqualified
power of electing from the whole
number on the lilt ol perfons voted
for as Prefident ; aed on tlo3 ground
hft'.ppppfed it. v
Mr. Rodney faid that la the felefi
tion. He waa not tor innovating
on the Constitution one tittle more
than was abfolutcjy pceeffary: As
to the mere designation of office,
the people looked for aad expected
it ; ad if that were obtained, t,hcy
would be fatised. -v
Mr. G. W. CamfiUl faid he
too reprefented a fmall ftate and was
anxious to preferve the rights of the
fmall ftates but in a great Con
stitutional qucflion, hile' thefe
rights were not loft: figkt . of prin
ciple ought alio to be regarded.
The proposition of the gentle
men ffbm Penafylvania (MntClay)
came nearer to the principle of-he i
Con flit uticm. jthan that offered by j
the geealeman from Maryland?" He
had already obferved that, there be- h
mg at (prefent no defignationffour jj
was the linallcft pofhble number
from whTch a choice could be made ;
to this nanaker but one was added,
making altogether five. In future
elections, ,. there will be 176 elec
tors, and if there ke a defigna
tiori of ofHce, but, one perfon can
have a majority.- To confine Che
choice to two perfons will, there
fore, in principle, approach as near
as.poflible to the original principle
of the Confcitution. He was in fa
vour of preferving that part of the
Conftitution .which directed the
votings by ftaies,i wifhing as little
innovation as pofTible on the prfn
ples of the Constitution. He did
not, . however, conceive a more
change of words dangerous 5 but
the eftablifhment of a principle that
deprived che people of the power
of electing thofe who poffe fled the
largest fh are of their confidence ;V'j
The queftion was then taken on
Mr. Nicholfon's amendment, and
loft -Ayes 29 Noes 77.
Mr. SmiliEj in order to try the
principle, would move to strike out
" three," and infert "five." - .
Ms. Dawson would only re-,
peat a remark, which he had already
made. The felect committee, ' in
propofing three as the number from
which an election fhould he made,
did not consider themfelves as de
parting in the lcaft from the fpirit
of the Conititution; as when both
Prefident and Vice-Piefident were
voted for, without difcrimisiation,
the choice was made from five. .
Mr. Smilie,; faid, he did not
know that there would be any dan--gtr
in this innovation ; but it was
his wifh net to alte the Conftitu
.'ion except in cafes of necefnty.
Mr, Goddard faid he was iu fa
vor of this amendment for the fame
reafon that lie had been in favor of
that propofed by the gentleman f
Maryland.
Mr. A 1 s t e n was oppofed to the
amendment ofFeredby the gentleman:
from Pcanfylvania Mr. Smilie, to
the amendment of the , felect com
uiittce, becaufe in his opinion it
would hae'a tendency to bring the
election of the Prefident of the U-
Iviited States more freo-'uentlv into
'.he Houfe of Reprefentatives, than
other wife is would be brought; hft
was as much difpofed to guardgainst:
the influences of the large states as
any member on that floor. .
. 'The gentleman from Connecticut
(Mr. Goiliri) was in "favor of
the amendment beeaufe he thought
it calculated to lefien the influence
of the, larger flates. For his part
Mr. A. thought very differently
from that gentleman he believed
rhat provided the amendment
ihcpld be acceded to, it would
be an inducement to any one of the
Urge states to prevent an election of
PreGdent ky theelectora of the feve-
ral states ; that if the votcs of a large
(lite fhould be vithbeld from any
one of the candidates propofed as
Prefident, it would prey en t fuch
candidate from obtaining a majority
of all the votes oif the electors. What
then, Mr. Alfton afked, would be
thecOnfequence. The choice would
.have to be made oy that houfe, which
circum fiance he never wifhed to
witnefs-again; this he conceived to
bean important point tp guaid a
gaiftft as much as poffible. !
He was much better p leafed with
the motion which had been with
draw. He fhould therefore give
his vote agamft the prefent propofi..
tion, and fhould it be rejected, he
would himfeff rene w the DroDoftf
tion made by the gentleman from
M. Randoj. rii faid. he came to
the Houfe under the inapreflioa tht
I another fubject would have occupied
their attention, on account 01 its )x
primary 4m portance, aot meaning,
however, tq difparage the imor
tance of sfb amendme.nt to the con
fli'ution. But on a fubjeii wh cht
mufl be'difcuTTed in a few dys, if at
a!I, Vt ws in-iptoper hjt time fhould
be ioft. The propofed arriedi3eBt t0
the cooftitution was not, he beloved
fo extremely, prcfling aa io eqaire
immediate atteation. THfubj -tt te
which Mr. R. had exptfied tHe at
tevition of the HouXf would have
been fi: fh direct-d, wa. the Tieaty
with Fr-mce,: Hoping tl at the com
mittee would havedecuid on tho
amendment at an earl hour, he had
refrained frorri
any mot ton. xu
a decisis was not
perceiving thai
likely foon to be made, he would
move that the committee jChould nfe
for the purpofe . of tdkingiop tke
Trttity refpecting Louifiat.
Ms. Dawfcui opotied the rising
of the Ccmmittee;
The queftion was taken on Mr'
Randolph's motion, aad earned
Ayes 60- Noes 55.. Carried
V' hen the Committee rofe : and
M.T. Grifwld, after a few prelii
rninary remains, fubraitted tho fol
lowing m' tion : 5
" Rofolvcd, thst the Prefiden of
the United States ba requested 1 to
caufe to be laid before this Houfe,
a, copy ot the ireaty betv-een" the
French Republic-atid Spain, f the
firft-of Oiiobei i3oo, togirfh'rr with
a cbpy of the deed-f ceffiVn froia
Spain executed in purfuanve of the
fame treaty conveying LtUifuna to
France, (if any' fuch deed exifts;)
alio copies of fuch cOrrefpe rdence
between the government of the Uw
nited Staies'and the gdvernment or
aainifler of Spain f it any fuch cor
refpondfcnci has takan: place) as will
fhow the affenf or d.ffent of Spain
co -the purchale of iLodifiina by
tke United:' Stato?!-together witk
copies of fuch p;her documents as
may be in the'department of flate,
or any other department bf this go
vernmcat tending to aicertain wke-'
ther the United States havej in fact,;
acquired any title to the provinco
of Louifiana ky the treaties with.
Frsmce, of the 30th of April,' 1835.
Mr. Randolph replied at confide
anie length, and was followed by
Mt. Goddard
in favor of, and
Meifrsi Lyon arid Sniilie against the
moLcn. . , . .
' Mr, Gregg afked for a diyioti of
tho question, confidering that it
might be of fome ufe, to obtain the
Treaty of Iidefonfo, but not th
other papers afked for
Mri Sandford, Mr. Elliott and
Mr. Nicholfon followed in opposi
tion to the motion, and Mr. Thatcher
in favor of it. .
..Mr. Mitchell fpoke agaiaft it, and
moved a paflponement of the mo
tion to; the first Monday in May.
v Meffrs.. Findley, Grifwold and
Goddardy oppofed the poftpone
mentf ;
The motion of poflponement was .
fofl. f . , . , -
. jfke ornginaf motion was then di.
vided I and pa agreeing to the firft
member .viz'. " -
v. Refitted, That the Prefident of
the; United Stales be requefted to
caufe to bcrlaid before this Houfe,
s copy ot the Treaty between tke
French Republic and Spain, of the
ift pf October, 1800.
The Houfo divided---Ayes, 59--tfocs
59 The Speaker declaring
hiKifali in the affirmative the motion
was carried. - ,
The queftion was then taken bit
the fecqmd memher, viz. -ft tbge
ther with' a copy of the inftru
ment of ceflion from Spain, execu
ted in purfiiince of the famo treatv
onveying Louisiana to Fiance (u , -
r I ri ... : . '
any men imtrument exiiu". i . ;
And loft Ayes 4, r -.J"-'
liie OUaltlOB .was rhn t4tn
--. .J..
the third member, vizAlfoW
copies of fuch correfpooaocc r;byK
iwaoo tne government or the uni
ted States aod thegovernroentfm,
minister of.cpainif any iuchi5l
rel
fpondence has taken places) stS n
fhew the affent or di Mentha
uri, on
to the nurckafe of Lnmfiani
United States." , r 7;
Anu loft Ayes 34. f
The qusfbon wn ttC'J
n
V
I
9
i'i
,,i;5Mai, leaiqre
Of
Pcnnfylvamia, fhould it not, be
cum nu ice ne naa nacn in tivor o