- ' ' - ' s ' U.w.fp'dbyp.rtyr.se.wlWelikebrothern1 - . - ' " " " , " ' '' J' V.CV " vol. vn. .e.. , ' . " ' -MoNDAYAPiiE r, i806.-: - ; - -i-; s;:txoUxJi$ H ' , , , : v i ik.' " ; 1 " . . . Debate on the DISPUTE with G. BRITAIN. v fv Ml." Gregg's. Resolution. A Continued from-twr htU Mr J. Clay was, opposed to Jthe passage , of thisr resolution, because if carried intoeffectj it would place greater means in the hands, of Q, Britain of yjnjuring ys than . the al ready possesses : for while we are J prohibit ed from i m porting 3 he r rna -nufacturesv she will-be atTibeny to receive our produce which "will acr cumulate in the hands of the British jhecHkht:; anq,.they" will have no means of paying for it ; and he doubted even, at present, whether there were not greater sums due to this country from G. Britain, than there are recoverable debts due from ' American, cuizens to mem. lie ai . to insisted that the resolution would not be carried into effect as the ar ticles jgefrom G. Britain, could not bej got from anyJ othei dountry. Biit tht greatest injuryfit would c casion was the destruction of our revenue. v.. . MrJr Crowninshield spoke in favour of , the resolution. He said the balance of trade wijhi G. B. was betwixt 11 and 12 millions j against us, which ve had to mnke up by re mittances in cash or bills from other countries ; when if we did not pur chase to a, greater amount .than wt sell her, this amount would be , re turned o the United States, probably hi cash from -othef European Na tions. He had no idea that the pro position would have an injurious tf iecvon this country, but would ina lerially affect the country it is aim ed at. But it is said it will lead to war. He had no such UIed, but if it did, the United States would have greatly the advantage. Our priva teers would make two captures' to their one. He hoped however, the resolution would never go into effect, but that the British would give us back the property they have wrong; fully taken from us, and liberate our seamen. . But if Britain persists in her captures and impressments, he would not hesitate to meet her in 'war. In such an event, she .know that she would lose her Eastern pro vinces Canada - and Nova Scoya. She knows also that her subjects would .lose immense sums which they hold in our government stock. Knowing this, he had no doubt, when Britain saw the proposed measure adopted, she would come to terms Mr. J. Randolph. I am ex tremely afraid, sir, that so far as it may depend on my acquaintance with details connected with the sub ject, I have very little right to ad dress you, for in truth, I have not yet seen the documents from the Treasury, which were called for tsorne time ago, to direct the judge ment of . this house in the decision of the question now before you : and indeed, after what I have this day heard I no longer require that ctocu-. ment or any other document in deed I do not know that I ever should have required it to vote on the re-; solution of the gentleman from Pennsylvania. If I had entertained any doubts they would have been removed by the stylin wluch the frtcitds-of thtfTesoluuori . have; this morning discussed it. lam perfect ly aware, that on entering upon this subject, we go into it manac!td handcuffed, -' and tongue tied ; gentlemen know that our lips are sealed on subjects of momentous foreign relations, which a e indisso- j lubly. linked with the present ques tion, and which would serve to throw a great light on it In every respect relevant to it. I will, however, en deavor to hobble .over 'the subject, s well as my. fettered limbs and paKied tongue Will enable me to ' i0 it.' . ' :, 1 am not surprised to hear, this resolution discussed by its friends Zi a war measure. They say (it & trwt) that it is not arwar measure ; ,iUt they defend it on principles liich would Justify none but war JTnt-aburcs, and seemed pleased with the idea that it may prove thefbi e. ftn:'ier of war. If war i,s necessary---, have reached .this point, let us u war. But M hilc I hc life.I vv 11 'lever consent to those. incipient vr t!icasuie4 which, in theicorri- menccraent breathe fiothin:i but peace, though they plunge isat last into war- .It has been well observed by hegentleman from Pennsylvania behind me (Mk J. ClaV) that the situation of this nation in 1793, was in ever respect different from that vin which it finds itself in vl 806. j Let me ask, too, if the situation' of England is ' not since materially changed l gentlemen, who, it would appear from their language, have not got beyond the horn-book of politics, talk of our ability to cope with the" British navy, and tell u of the War .of our- revolution. What was ths situation of G. Britain then ? She was then contending for the em pire of the : British channel, barely able to maintain a doubtful equality with her enemieSf over whom she 'y never gained the superiority until I Rodney 'a victory of the 12th of pril. What is her present situation ? The combined fleets of Franc e Spain, and Holland are dissipated, they no Jonger exist. I am not sur prised to hear men advocate these wird opinions, to see them goaded on by a spirit of mercantile avarice, straining their feeble strength'to ex cite the natvbrito war, when they have reached .thjs stage of infatua tion, that weafe an over match for G Britain on the ocen. It is mere waste of time to (reason with such persons. They do not deserve any thing like a $et ious refutation. The proper arguments for such states men are a strait waistcoat, a dark room, water gruel, and depletion. It has always appeared to me that there are three points to be con sidered, and maturely considered before we can be prepared to vote for the resolution of the gentleman from -Pennsylvania. First. Our a bility to contend with Great B r i tain For hqucstmn in disptite t Second Iy The policy of such a contest ; and Thirdly, In case both these shall be settled amrmatiyely, the manner in which we can, with the greatest effect, re act upon and an noy our adversary. , Now the gentleman from Massa chusetts (Mr. Crowninshield) has settled at a single sWeep, to use one of his favorite expressions, not only that we are capable of contending with Great Britain on the ocean, but that we are actually her superior. Whence does the gentleman deduct this inference ? Because, truly, at that lime when Great Britain was niot mistress of the ocean, when a North was her prime Minister and a Sand wich the first Lord of her ad miralty when she was governed by a counting house administration, privateers of this country trespas sed on tier commerct. So, too, did the cruiztrsvoFDunkirk at that day. Suffrein hefd the mastery of the In dian seas. But what is the case now ? Do gentlemen remember the capture of Cornwallis on land, becausei De Grasse maintained the dominion of the ocean ? To my. mind no position is more cfcar,,than if that we go to war with Great Britain, Charleston and Boston, the Chesapeake and the Hudson will be invested by British squadrons. Will you cull on the Count de Grasse to relieve ih-m, or shall we apply to Amiral Gratina, or Admiral Villen- euve to raise the blockade.: But you have not only a prospect of ga thering glory, and what seems to the gentleman from Massachusetts, much deat-qr, profit, by privateering,' but you Vill be able to make a con quest of Canada and Nova Scotia. Indeed i Then, sir, we shalf catch a Tartar. I confess, however, I have no desire to see the Senators and Representatives of the Canadian Frenchmen of the tories and refu gees of Nova Scotia sitting on ,this floor, or thai of -the., other House To see them becoming members of the union, and participating e qually in our political rights. And on what other principle, would the gentleman, f'oni Massachusetts be for incorporating those provinces with us ? pron what other princi ple cculd it' be done under the consti iutionj If the gentleman has no o ther bounty to offer us for going to War, .than the ' ihcorppratiorof Can ada' and Nova Scotia wit ji the United States, I am for remaiiig at peace. n What i$ the quevtion in dispute ? The carrying trade. What part of it f The, tair, the nonest ana tne useful trade that is engaged in car rying bur own productions to foreign markets, and -bringing; back their productions in exchange ? ': 'No, Sir. It is that carrying trade which co vers enemy property, and carries the , coffee, j. the sugar, . and other West India products to the mother country. No, Sjjv if thU great a gricultural nation is to be governed by Salem and ' Boston, N w-York and Philadelphia, and Baltimore and Norfolk and Charleston, let gentle men come out and say so ; :'and let a committee of public satety be ap pointed from those town s to carry on the government. I, for one,, will not mortgage my property and my liberty to carry on this trade. The nation said So seven years ago, I said so then, and I say so now. Ir is not for the honest carrying trade of America, but for this mushr room, this fundus of war, for a trade which as soon as the nations of Europe are, at peace, will no lon' get exist, it is for this that the spirit of ; avaricious traffic would plunge us into War. ! I am forcibly struck on iThis oc casion, by the recollection oifa re mark made by one of the ablest Tit, nor me nonesiestj i ministers mat England ever produced. I mean 3ir Robert Waipoley vKo said tliat that the country gentlemen poor meek souls 1) came up every year to be sheared that they laid mute and patient whilst their fletccs were taking off but that it he touched a single bristle of the commercial in terest the whole stye was in an up roar 4li was indeed sheHinng the hog great cryt(lnd little wool." ut we ire asked, are we willing to bend the necl to England ; to submit to nejv outfages I No, Sir, answer, that it wjli be time enough for us to tclLetlemenvwhaIwel will do to yinrlicate ;tBe ;vioiatiphs of our 6aKontheS oceM whe) they shall have told jns what they have .1 "i ,i' -fiii ,' -'' T- . . I done in resemnlent of the violation U of the actual ' territory itdry of the United it Stateshy Spain -the true territory of the UnitedStaies, not your new iangiea country over tne jnssissippi, but good olet-United Sates part of GeoiKia, of the old thirteen states where citizen4 have been taken, not fro .n our ships, but from ur actual territory. When gvntlemeti have taken the padlock from our mou hs, I shall be reacy to tell them what 1 will do, relative to our dispute wilh Britain, on the law of nations, on ontraband, and such stuft. I havt another objection to this course of proceeding. Great Britain, when she sees it, will say the Ameri can people have great cause of dis satisfaction with Spain, She will see by the documents furnished by the President, that Spain has outraged our territory, pirated upon our com merce and imprisoned our citizens ; and she will enquire what we have done ? It is true, she will receive no answer, but she must know what we have not done. She will see that we have not repelled these outrages, nor made any addition to our army and navy- nor even clas sed the militia. No, sir, not one of your militia Generals in politics has marshalled a single brigade. Although I said it would be time enough to answer the question which gentlemen have put to me when they shall have answered mine, yet, as I do not like long prorogations I will give them an answer now. I will never consent to go to war for that which I cannot protect. I deem it ro sacrifice of dignity to say to the Leviathan of the deep, we are unable to contend with you in your own elepient, but if you come with in our actual limits we will shed our last drop of blood in their defence. In such an event I would feel, not reason, and obey an impulse Which never has which nevercan deceive me. V-; - , ;: ' - '--, France is at war with England. su p pose h t r po w t r on the comih e n t of Europe no greater than it is op ocean . ' How wou Id she make he r enemy feel it ? , There would be . a perfet nop conductor between them.. So with the United Sta.s arid England- she scarcely presents to us a vulnerable point,' Her commerce's now earned on for the npst art in , flectswhere in' single ships - they are stout and well armed vtry dif terent trom the state of her trade duringthe American wari when her mercnanunen Dicame tne i' prey ot paltry privateers. Great Britain has been too long, at war with the three mnst powerful maritime nations of t Europe not to have learnt hoVr to protect her trade. She can afford convoy! to it all--she has 800 ships m commission, the navies of her enemies are annihilated. Thus this war has presented the new and curi pus political spectacle of a regular annual increase (and to an immense lbuht) of her imports :;trtjd exports and tonnage and revehuefahA all the insignia of accumulating wealth, whilst in every former war, without exception, these have suffeied a greater or less, dimhution And wherefore ?; Because she has driven France, Spain, and UolLnd from the ocean Their marine is no more. I verily believe that ten English ships of the line would not decline a meeting With the combined fleets of those- nations. - I forewarii the gentleman f omv Massachusetts aid his constituents of Salem, that all their golden hopes-are vain. I forewarn them of the exposure of .their trade beyond the Cape of Good Hope or now doubling it) to cap. ture and confiscation of therunpro tected sea port towns, exposed to contribution or bombardment. Are. we to be legislated into war by a set of men, who in six weeks after) its commencement, may be compelled to take refuge with 'us up, in the country. And forNwhati; A; mere fungus, a mushroom preddctibn' ol war iii Europe, which will disappear with the return of peace an unfair trade For is there a man so credu- i lous as to believe that we possess a capital not only equal to what may be called our own or oner, trade, hut r large enougn aiso ro transmit to tne respective parentttates-foi the vast ana wealthy products ot therrench. ' . ... ,"- r . Spanish and Dutch colonies ? 'Tis beyond the belief of any rational be- ing. But this is not my only objec tion to entering upoi) thisUftaval warfare. 1 am averse to a naval war with any nation whatever. I was opposed to the naval,warof the last administration, and I am as ready to oppose a naval War of the present administration, should they meditate such a measure. "What I shall this great Mammoth of the American forest leave h, 5 native ele ment and plunge into the water in a mad contest with the shark. Let him beware ihat his proboscis is noi bitten off in the engagement. Let him stay o-.i shore, and' not be exci ted by the muscles and periwinkles on the strand, or : political bears, in a boat to venture on the perils of the deep. Gentlemen say, will you not protect your violated rights ? And I say, why take to water, where you 1 can neither herht nor swim. ,-Look at France, see her vessels stealing from port to port on their own coast; and remember that she is the first military power of the earth, arid as a naval people second only to Eng land. Take away: the British navy, and France to-morrow is theltyrant of the-ocean. ' -4 " This brings me to the second point. How far is it politic u .the United States to throw their weight-into the scale ot r ranee at this; tune ; ji orn whatever motive, to aid 4the views of gigantic ambition, ' to make her mis tress of the sea and land,, to jeopar dize the liberties of mankind. ' -Sir, you niay help to crush GrealBiitain- y ou may assist in breaking down v her naval dominion ; but ypu 'caiv not succed to it. The irPn sceptre of the oeean will pass into his hands! You may tlien expect a .new code ot 1 ?v. t : - xirt lit . "JlL manuinc iaw.. ; y ncc;wiu youwuK-i j to for. redress? can; tell the gen?j tleman from ; Massachusetts, J. that there is, hbthing in his rpleof threek liiat win aairc. us,' sim huuu iic should 3out-ao , mmseit anuexceea the financial ingenuity vr fiicn he so memorably ; displayed on 'recent pecasionv NoVsir Let'; the battle, of Actium be once fought- arid 1 the whole tine of sea.coast will be at the mercy of the conqueror, ; The At- Ian tic, deep and we as it is,;; will ' iinivr ' iiii i mri trii i iiirnrr hhmiit ii r - .11 his ambition directed ,againsty ouj Yst as the-Mediterranean tof the; pbwetl; H of the Csars, Do I mtan wheii ;X; say so) t to crouch j to t be invader? ut No -I will meet him atlhe :watert? edge, and fight every inch rof ground irom inence 10 ine iviississipi: du ;,; afier tantely Submitting to an oUf-"f$tK rage on your domicile, wiU Wou oul r ly and look big at an insult on ypurf,? flag 3,000 miles off?V' l?i4c'4V; iBut, sir. I have a yet mereogep reason against going 16 Var,for thc 1 honor of the flair in v the rfarrow' a'-'V I orny'other maritime punctilio rItv ; spnngs trom my attachment 40 me -, j printiples of the goyefnmeht Undei VS j which ivive. I declare, in tefa'ce''J I of day, that this goyernment-Svav nt J -mrituted fotc tlie: purpose 'of 'often' tv sive war. sxa., it .was iramea, (.00 :r a use1 its own language) 'for the jbom- VrX mon defence and the general welfifrci v':' which ;are inconsistentS,,iihofiensivc tt, - .. . Mt -.V- V twsr:; i call thaw ntinnive. war. a-jaci which; goes -out of our i jurisdiction and limits, jbr the attainm.ent or pro- C, tection of objects, nt within thr rfr limits of that r iurisdiction : ; As";rin'' t itlywJas-opposed Ao tills, ' species ' offwavfare, because I belieyed.'it very; foundation", so in , 1806 am, T opposed . to it, and on th'e: same grounds. " No sooneMo you put the constitution to this use,-; to a tesit which t is by no means calculated; to endure, thartits incompetency, to l. siich, purposes becomes manifest and ' ) cpliVlll IU A: Kill U JUU gU HJ" . to a foreign war for a ciixuitous unw; fair carrying trade, you will come but , not you contractors enough yet .hi' .;s,J 11:5 nouse ur u you iwanj; vwdo-i saries and all the vermin of contracu7 ?a i :r I fear. sir. that what are calleoV "ihV c.? energy men will rise up againmeni ' w no win Dnni me parenmenu ;,we shall he tnt that nur envernmnt .'V too free r as they would say weak and inefficient. Too much, virtue sird in terms. , j.nac xe must irive-tho President power to call forth the re- K sources of . the nadoivthatliufilcHH rhe AmeiicaU i neonle must ir . m ------ r --t -.... t"lij with-hold this power .or resign their I liberties. There it no other alterna- r-' U tive. Nothing but the most rripq- ; rious necessity will justify such . j l : my at;our doors I v You may. heeiii-1 salis staj;evhe ?bon : becomes Em perorr'vVpir.hafTe your choice - it dependsip6nJyour election whether yuu win ue a ucc iiMupy, ana unitea. people at-home, or the light of your ' executive majesty sr. an oeam across . the Atlantic in one general biaze of the public liberty. - . i 1 1 . r or mypan, i win never go to war jtiit in "sell defence. I have no desirW; for conquests- ho ambition to- pos sess Nova bcotia 1 hold the liber ties of this v people at a higher rate;1 Much more am I muisposed to war, when among the first means for car." r) ing it on I see gemlcmtnpropose thcoPfascauon ot debts due , by go- ; f Vernment " to individuals' . Does xf iii bona fide creditor know who holdiC JT hi& pa. ,er ? Dare any jmWask him-' self ihe question? Ti&'ha'ra tp saj wnetner. sucn principles arerniore vj detestably dishonest than they" -am weak juiu iuuumi. vv naif , 'SirywiU'v ; you g about ivith proposals for open uig i tucui ta uiie nairu, ana a spunge for the national "debt - id the . other, v If on a late occasion" you could;' not V'- bonow at a less ritc' of interest than 8 vtr cent, when tie eo vei n ntent' - vowed that theywoildtpay to the--,7 ;! Uti shilbng of thcpubiic ability v at.V morieV with an. avowal of these iie- ' ' ..v lanous opinions ; vou nelp yoply if thcsc-aie vour ways andrint'ari' for carrying on warif -v yournnan- ;esare urthe hands 'of such a chan- '.''1' cellof of the i , exchequer; Because a " man can take , au Qbservationv and 3 keep a log-bcok and "a reckoning,' " can navigate V- cPck'boat loathe West Indies or the iuast, shall he as- ' z'JA pire to navigate the great vessel of l - state, to stand at the helrnofpublit:;': t S councils. ? : , Ne tutor ultra trepidant. Tv ; 1 ! 4 I ,1. 1 v 4 A j I 1 I S I T r u t, t 1 f 'I P if ' ill : 1 " vi1 I;:.- . ' i t r . : '' f t i K -i 4

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