1 "- v " - AND --.-
";a-i. Vll- ; Monday, Febuauy 2, 1807. :- - ; ' ' . - - Ko. 3S4 . 1
i
7
DEBATE. ;
on ttoc :
MEW JUPICIAT
SENA T QfJNiCARQLWA'
The Bill for the more uniform 'W conve-
nient idttrifiistrau)ii, of Jasyce, .ber.g
read a rfsbiid 'liraft-andpeiv amer,t3
The geshirha fortne the consti-
tution perhaps Anr5X
H rtyolutu). they were we
n aVoplngrs much as possible, any j
ccMary until they had secured t at
power of making law with a cef
taiiuy of their being prnRant:n 4-
Even, however, allowmg tnat tnr
then considered the old mode be
bv Dr. Franklin's calculation th
eoun'ry doubles its population eyerv
20 t ears. It is now near 30 sinde
the adoption of the constitwtion,! and
from the increase of, popu dtion and
change of circumstances, an altera
tion that would not have been proper
tben, mfght now be very necessary.
The i hird objection is raised from
the reat danger attending inmwa
tion4 on the work of the heroes anH
tates'Sen of the revolution The
art of 1777 for establishing courjs of
Jaw and regulating the proceedings
itjtreiu, is rankec! as such, and sided
one pf our antient and fundamental
laws, made by the same great men
Who formed the constitution of the
Sute," tfct patriots of 1776, and we
are called to " cling to it as the vVork
cf our most venerable sages, wjthj in
crtasing affection and veneration.
!No ;Man deprecated a wild system of
innovation mor than he did. It had
been the scourge of Europe, and
caused destruction to thousands,,
But without rational innovation old
vrors would always remain. There
"would never have been any improve
ment either in sr stems of rejigion
or g-jvernment, nor would the revo
lu ioti, accomplished by the patriots
' of 1776, ever have beeTi attfrnpted.
The feudal ystem wou!4 hare conii
liued in all its abomination and we
hoild now beJthe humble subjects of
- a king instead ibf the Tree citizens oi a
great republic entird and ;ad Ttired by
.all th woild 1 He had as much ve
fner; tion for those heroes as any gen
tjenian whateveVand was wiiliMg to
follow their footstep i, for thry shewed
by .their own examples in passing
ther laws amending :he act of 1 777,
that thy did inot consider it in the
solemn point of vey presented to us,
as the constitution of our court sys
tern." So far; from it, the. very ex
pressions used in the 2d section of
tkat Ihiv which designates the duties
of the Judges, proves that the act) it
self was meant for a ttmporpry regu
lation only. At that time their grand
objtct was to rescue the country frm
tvranny and oppression bv ' .glorious
etrugvcles in the field;' : Infor afmA
mi n? teges " out as toon as victory
c.ro w ned their noble, efforts and mejek
ey ed Peare extended tl?e olive branch
to our happy land, with liberty aod
independence in her train, these very
Tatrotsr:: throwing by thtir swofds,
omployed iheirlhugh s in defising
the best means to- secure the bW
sings thcyJjad gajantly won by
passing Syisefand wholesome laws for
governing the countiy and amnding
those made in the hurry anl fcustle
of the revolution. Instead "of cjon
idcrVng the act of 1777 in thejsa
cred or inviolable point of view sup
posed, aftd that alterations or im-
pruvcinciHs ui n were nangerous tn
tiovations, they soon . discovered by
cool -and matnre eamiriation, that
the law was defective, and that the
increase of population made altera"
tions necessary Turn to your sta
tute book ;. look at the marginal re
ferences of, this very act. Do they
not shew that no les than fourteen
alterations "or modifications were
thought necessary From April, 17S2,
vhen the country began to enjoy
ome tranqiaility, to he latter part
of 1788, being about six years and a
half,, and averaging at least lX altera
tions foreach ytar. Caw it be deniec
that these were made by the patriots
of 1776, If so, will it not assist tht
nojit disgraceful obicction to reimh.
mi!t ihat Korth-Cafotirta rewx
PmgrMifttde by Wnishing tem from
tier counrus. -a-iie nean oi
pverv eood man mst; revolt iat
the'aViioo4 anl injustice of such
Hh idey . One ot the eavist alteu-.
tions orthe acfof '77, was one of th
gt est improvements, that, of 1 78 2 .
giving an equity jurisdiction to tiie
superior courts. A: secoiiuact w Js
passed .the Kame yeatipUividing the
district of Saliihury into two. A case
so far in, point, as it increased the
duties of the udjcs without inc. re a
sirig their pay in proportion to ttv
ottratrduble or inconvenience.
The act of 1785 M one till mor
strong in point ; in fact it furnifhew
a ri'mlepte precedent in favor of tht
present bill, for i in contradiction to
fhe iistrict principle it tstahlishrs a
superior Court taw nn equity in
the county of uaviasjn
In
mining
the Us f the1 state, he
found that neatly fifty acts had been
passed frrtm time to time, altering,
amending) See one of them in express
terms repealing part s of this acs so
impressively termed the constitution
of our courts. These alterations
have been considered improvements.
Sane of them very essential, and he
was pf opinion that none of them
weretn re salutary than the one pro
posed. -
Many arguments had ben urged
against the expediency f the mea
sure. In answering those he
hi unde- the necessity af using thi
tvords republic, repuhlicanism or re
publican, imt he desired to be expli
citly understood, that jthee termb
were not intended ' ad captandum '
or as watch words of party ; he meant
the distinction of republican to em
b ace every good citizen who is averse
to royalty, who is inimical to aristo
cracy, ai4 sincerely attached to th'
rightH, liberties and happiness of hi
country and its free constitution -I?
had been said that the bill before youf
if passed into a Uw, would destro
wi h the district principle, our only
security for a pure ana impar'ial trial
by jury. The high authorities here
tofore quoted prove, that in the opi
nion of our ancestors, jurors from
the vicinage or county were consL
dered the bes judges af the fads al
ledged in evidence, by knowing hc
fba hand the ch srtcters of the. par
ties and witnesses, and for centuries
past it was deemed an " intolerable
burthen o compel the parties, wit
nesses Sc jurors to come trm West
moreland or Cornwall to try an action
oi a&sauirai Westminster, mat is o
say, to com.1 frofn a reat distance :
to attend courts. Besides the imp ii
tial trial by jury is particula ly well
secured in this state j perhaps better
than In an any other, by the 4tb
chapter of the acts of 1796, forbid
ding the judge's o give any opinion
in their ch.irges as to the facts tned,
and-"Allowing parties even in civil
cases to challenge peremptorily two
jurors hjpon the pahnel without shew,
ing any special cause therefor.
Moreover the l2thdauseof the pre
sent bill cart fully provides a remedy
in cassis where either party doubts
the' impartiati;y of the jury in., any
county, by. authorising " a removal
n the cause to some adjacent cour
for trilU" Notwithstanding all these
guarrJsV however the prcsentjSaBw
l riot f courts have hud. partial juries
imposed upon them. Experienct
has so fully . proved Tis, that in a ca
sual cqnViersatiQiy bl&nly three mem-
oers Of thw house during the present
session, all from different districts,
they each had heard of apd believed
the information just, tlatjjnen Wen
corruptly in the way to tie summon
ed as talesmen, by whose addition
to the jury justice bad been prevent
dj and such is the deplorable falli
bility of human hatvire, thaVhe, nad
neara ;irom tne, ntgnest amiwrity
s.hat it i was scarcely possible.to Ob
:aio a verdict in one t?f the district
courts of a large 'and respectable
;,art of the state, where auy promi"
nent character of tvvo contending
barties had a cause for trial, were 1
. ver so plain.. Granting the possi
iaility of destroying the impartialit v
n a jury trial byprjudiced tales
men being summoned in a case
here the cause of a rich or popular
ha.rac!cr, inhabiting a district towi?
more probable is it that talesmen of
that town or county will be easier
JouncL thah rnen from a distance ?
Does not this thpn she w that the poor
m;m, after trav!lin many miles to
obtain justice, itands less chance of
receiving an iri partial verdict from
the jury, supplied by such-talesmen,
than the rich nkn. who is better and
jhore generallv known, or, he who
lives i it the dittrict town or county.
Sc is sut oundid bv.-his friends. Is. m't
this ana1 'anWge a: 8; ounticsovr the
remainining 5 Of the few ovr the
many ? The! gentleman last up oh
served that tiis. system gave the
rich advantajgi over the poor. It is
very fortuuafe that, the poor have
many friends.- Poor as they are,
tttey afe so powerful that all parties
endeavour ti enlist tham on -their
side. They are made the hack horse
of every popular argumrnl, and al-;
though claimed by feoth sides on the
present occasion be had no aoubtj
but time and experience would con-J
vince hem which f 'he two were -their,
real friends, yf they could not!
immediately, comprehend the vast !
advantaj". of he present system in j
their, lavor. Th'mass of" oratory1
and talent is ceHainly against those!
who advocate th bill, but he d mbt-!
ed whether anv opposer of the bill j
even if he possessed the persuasive '
tongueTof Ctceio, or the thuce'ering '
eloquence of Dimosthcnes could con-1
v:nce a Door nim of the most com-1
mon understarpliug, that it was bet-(
ft ; . .
ter for him to go to court CO or 100 j
miles from home and attend it for a j
fortnight or mure, at a considerable
expence in a iistrict town, than tra-j
vcl to a superior court in his own
county, to which the distance was
not half sa fjr, the term not half so
long, nor the;expences half so grat
It was the maxim of the Venerable
sage of Amirica heretofore mention
ed,Dr. Franklin that 'time is money.' j
No one expenen'.r the truth of this ;
more than the poor man, the fa'her'i
ot a numerous young family, whether ,
as luror. patty or wuticss.. bi-tnir '
inder the present system obliged to
V
attend a court of the spring circuit
must leave his farm soon after the
crop is planted. By the useless
waste of time, which we wish to les-
en, he is obliged to be so long ab-
s MV, thuif much rain has intervened,
having no slaves tc cultivate that crop,
which vas intended te uvn sh his fa-
nily wjib bread, he finds it on his
return riearly or quite ruined; whare-
is, undtr the proposed alteration, his
absence will be so much shorter that
he may save bis crop. Which then
mist tie believe to be his friends
the lufporters of the old system,
fraught; with ruinous delays and ex
pences; or those who wish to reme
dy theie great evils. The rich man
having slaves, does not suffer in
a like degree by the Jong absence
necessirily required in attending the
home tj(clean his crop from the grass
and ais Merseer tc superintend bis
ou siness. There is also such a jea
lousy cf thfe few rich men we have
amongst us. and such a generosity
ih human n?iure to take the part of
the weak against the strong, that if
a rich ipnan be of a disposition to treat
a poor one with injustice oppres
sion arid attempts it in his own coun
ty, his character, hated and despised-
dl soon and justly rouse the jealousy
before mentioned, and there will al
ways be independent men sufficient
to turn the popular current against
him, and to defeat his tyrannical pur
oose. Besides, by thebllQprbposcd
he rich man is deprived of one of
the most powerful weapbnW of op
pression, that of draggina poof
man from his couhtv bv an anneal to
! the superior court. Rather than en
a 4 ' i
counter the difficulties, loss of time
and heavy expences of which, he
would submit to somd imposition ra- Jj
her than suffer absolute' ruin. , Ini)
thinking on this subject, the inconve
....
niences of the present system. were
more stongly impressed on his mind
. y contemplating the situation of the
counties in Edenton district tltf at.
of any other in the state. Jeld
jl plan or map of the dtstrtcWiffjib
hand, fpra gOod authority, Thence
mt plainly aDpeareti, mat so -many
Considerable wter courses inte aecu
$!& the "district, that if was frequently
tant Counties to tret to the cibr!nr w
o-- - - 1--
court m due time. Parttculzr' days
of the term being appointed fW ach
county, those persons who have bU
siness at the district court, migh
leave thtir dwellings wuh puttialn
ty and in full time to accomplish the'
distance but when they comeo the,
water courses, finding the tlerienf s,
wind and wavs forbidding their pas
sage, delays of justice would Happen
in spite of all human effortslunder
the district system 1 A
Anoiheobjectn to the; sjjtrjc;
ccyadopting the propoi SiC
twasVXhat it tended to. dfiTelftji'
present Judges from their sMsA oh
the, bencK.rjsJfewoMld be;verf $rv'
that his duty coSpelfcd nfqf tW
sist any measure thatobldpfoftuor
such au effect But thinking the one
proposed beneficial and proper for
the state at large, , he could no K
deterred from giving it h'rs support,
although the particular interest o:
convenience of the Judges, werejjity
his dearest and best friends, in som'
degree suffered. He hoped, hovt
ve , we should Hot experience tht
ill effects predicted. The duties ui
der the new system would not be at
burthensome as they had formerly
been under the present, when th
whole state was included in one cir
cuit. The Judges then ft id to rid;
vastly further, and to eopioy at Ieai
forty day more of the year tht
i they have under the prooosed l-i
They perlormed thjiduty at mui t
more advanced perods of life th
the present Judges- He confident
trusted they also would continue l
discharge their functions with adva
tage to the country and honor t
themselves. He was perfectly dis
posed to grant thm a liberal com
pensation foj devoting their tim an
talents to the dispensation of justice .
ana to increase the salary generousfv
inproportion tt the extra irvuble. Bu
in any event, the convenience of the
many ought to be considered and a'-
tcn;ed to in preference toihat of the
tew, What were the orrcat advan-
' V
tages of a re.ablic over a monarchy
or aristocracy j lut such s weredc-
rivta i rum mis nrsi principle. l ne
benefits oi" the latter were calculated
for a priviledgea few -Those of tht
republic for the whole. The most
prominent feature that dislinguishe:
a royal from a representative rtpub
lican goverement is, that the gra
deur and convenience f kinsrs and
lords are predominant to the injury
and oppression of the people ; where
as, a republic is happily formed
for the prosperity of the whofc. JLet
us then- as members representing a
free republic, provide for the accpm
modation and interests .of the peo
ple at large, y dividing the advan
tages and emoluments nw enjoyed
by tha few, viz the eight dis'ricl
counties, amongst the many other
counties of this widely extended ajd
populous state,! aivcl pass into a law.
for that amorist other purposes.the
bill now under consideration.
The gentleman from Surry ob
served, that it was allowed on all
hands that tht present c.urt
system is ira perfect.4' Thi did
not appear 'frbn? the preadings
of tht House of Commons. A large
Vote had there bean givn in favor
of it. He was himself, however, rca
dy to grant that the pronosedbill was
not complete. 1 he intention in pas
sing it was merely to establish the
principle, and the system wauld afc
tei wards be matured by such amend
ments a appeared necessary ani
proper. The experience of - other
states is adverse to the eeiule man's
observation, and much more in fa?ar
of the proposad system, than i ha
wnicn we now uvt uncer. ir was
likewise said in another place of higl
respcctabilitltbat the exdmnle of S
Carolina 4jBcn alone refied on.
H was "preiar'e to shew that' tht
iudicial instituttclfof other state in
ii "
ihe; union encourages us o makt
the experiment in this. , If the infor
mation he had receiycKvas corra.es
and be-had just grounds for believing
it so, irr". the com aiou wealth of Vir
pavk a jury is v always summoned
in criminal caifrora tjr vicinage
where the fact was committed In,
Maryland a law of 1 805 , provides
for the trial oft facts in the several
counties of the stale : V Jud ?e aiid
ties to try all facts. In Detawamtvo)
Fudges ride into each of the counties
for the trial of all facts. In Pennsyl
vania a Judge and two associates
try ail facts in eith of the counties
In New-Jersey a Judge goes iintd
rack of the counties for the trial o
facts In N ew. York one Judge goes
into each f .the counties : and forma
a court of isi Prius, In Coriniectr
rut, Massacbustts and New- Hamp
shire, all fazfl utfttfied in the oouni
ties ; in Geqtrgiaall facts are Med,
areperfectly ifiyfavor of those fwl
advoca:etthf4htJoSed chansret f
whd'
rfiytrhfafd Jobjettiaha id tha-
year aibiy earjtbdny .ifttrTiir f
pacts -pf th5tate, and elieving W
o be the spetial dutof theTiepub
licanftepresentatites of afre People
to listen with attention to their! just
complamfs Jwi4 reart,ss their j.real
grievances,viconsidcred it his duty
fo vote for a change. 4 ann viewing
.he subject as well as! hj was capa
ble, in all its different bearings, h
nad so littlerdoubt ofAhe proiiriety
if passing, the bill proposed, that h
-hould not hesitate to give it his; vote v
ven if that vote decided the fate of
tt, willingly trusting to time anH evtit
ptrience for the reward qf;vthat anxU
ty "whith must necessafity attend a
state of so much responsibility -a
eward, the greatest a goocFcititeri
(.an expenece, next . to ,the caascia
iusnes of rectitude, ?thatof the ap
rob tion bf?a Jree and enlightened '
People. . v "vv
Mr. FjiawkUH bserled, that
most of what had fallen from thc
gentleanahFrom Brunswick, .was
in answer, ta observations made in
the other houe, without nnticinf
4ny argutncfita'tire6Von -tMjfloQr
igainst thc &ll? Mr, F. remarked,
that the jurs. irl'the several atates jf
which hd een instanced, ware se
iected differently from the manner '
here proposed, and added som6
other objections to the bill.
Mr. B. Smith said, the gentle
man from Surry complained that.
he had answered arguments whichi 1
had aeen used elsewhere, and not
in that house, Without attending to
his. He assured thj'gentlemao th&
neglect was not. designed aod ;f
pis observationahad not been suf
hjcientiy attended to, it waj be
cause he was, 3 uriac customed toV
speiik so muchat length, and he
was glad to hasten" to a concliisioa
lie wnufd now however,1' make a
few rerhaka on what Bad fallen frorxl
that gentleman
He had stated, that if this bill
passed, it would destroy the present
I in each of the: counties, 'lldwin' , ""O
Lthen -the experience ahdiexArripled V
of other stales Uielr da height, IhevV
county courts. Suppose this shauld
ultimately be the case, it would not
be accomplished without an art o
the If glslature ; and if the people
found they could-have their busi
ness batter dotitin the county su
periof courts than- in the present
cgurts of pkaa Q quarter sessions,
it would b right and proper that
thiy ahdulo) have their choice.
- ' Hia next objection tct tlie bill Vas
that it provided no CoUrt of ctam
ceryf it do as mit aa ielpre.
sHit court a gtem, md to gf)iater
advantage. , Agreeably toihe pro
poaed alteration, therf quid bo
generally much more time allowed
at the end of each county superior) .
court for tha dispatch of equity bu
ttress, than the three days allotted
ctow-forall tha counties composxrp
ai district. The terms of the pree.
superior courts are no so long
that by the time the judges had sac
iendays on law business, they were
too much faugued to attend ta tho
rquity busineas for three days Ion
gerr Under the new system, the
law. business of a county, may, per
haps, be finished in three dayst an
the remaining three will be left;for
equity causes; whuh He supposed
would be sufficient, ancfin any eve; T
give vastly more time than was at
present granted. 4
The gentletnan had stated flhe.
county jails wtre insuflEient. ' So (
M
-1
1 ..
i'i-
1
4 i
ft
... ft
lies; must you not in such case ad-
impossible for rf mm from the d-
tira associates ait w tficottbc oan- j
it
ir county is to be trid how much