; v matt &azetiei : 1
.v. i,f ; Oats are the planoffair!eUtfjtful peace, . --..Vi - ,&V .,.:'!.. -V .'. , ' ;. . ' ' -I
' - vrv "' t. ' Unwarp'd hyparty rage, talive like Brother. . , . r,,lt' J ' 'rtli. . . j jiu vmimm!x-it "
-tL--i- " """ -T' " - "' ' ' ; ' Xhursd ay t December i7, 1807. i: , - ': Nb; 4. ': - . 1
J Hi 'I r in Mi i,ni, ,1 i m nnMMJ1111xJ ' I
DEB ATE
a the bill ta amend the lavs no i force;
panting to Creditors rigbtofng
g attache against iketr Debtors, betn
vpon its second reading
CONTINUED.
Mr. E. Hauhis was at all times
aYerse to making alterations in rhe
common 'law, except called, lot by
lioiia necessi y. ?ucuiwr
tions were generally attended with
. . rt hp believed it
wotiM
Dili Ufi"-"J " r U- f
produce a pWnt'ful crop of mischief.
It was not only a mischievous, but
an unnecessary measure, contrary to
sound reason and policy, and .never
vet adopted in any country. . Does
not every' man know, thai rben he
makes a bargain with another, that
his debtor is a freeman, and may go
vherever he pleases. If he be a
V -j rtf irc?no- his debt, if he be a
prudent man, will he not guard hiia
self against such a contingenry as is
provided. in this bill ? Is u not in
his power to take ample security?
Can he not take a mortgage of rel
property ? All this is with n hi,
power at the time Why, then pass
an act to do for a man, what he can
do for himielf. Something had been
said about Judgment Bonds. But
tkse the paty stipulated for. Men
frequently go into court and confess
judgment ; bat this bill gives to the
. creditor a power over he debtor
which was -neither stipulated nor in
tpnded wh n the contract was made.
It was said, that the passing of
this bill would not be impairing con
tracts But if making a man give
additional security which was not
stipulated for, was not altering for
impairing a contract, ' he did not
know what it was.
Let lis sec" said -Mr. H. what is to
Re done. If a man, afttrhe has en
tered into a contract to pay at some
distant day, makes known his inten
tion of removing out of the State, he
is to be dragged into a court, and his
property seized, if not takeh away
If a debtor ;were to be thus cpnfined
in the S'.ate,. he might as well take
the prison bounds at once ; for thert,
tlioiigh. iii3 person were confiried, his
.-property would be . free. ' In the one
ase, he "was limited to six acres, in
thef other to the State. But in botb
cases, he woul4 be in confinement.
Can a debtor have no rights ? Are
creditors to be at liberty tn do wha:
they please with their debu r ? He
lioped, as no law like this had ever
existed in any country, it would not
liave an existence in this.
Mr. Camehqs thought the prin
ciple contained in this bill truly im
portant. It rioints oiU a cheap and
easy remedy, in the place of an ex
pensive and difficult one, to be- taken
by a creditor agamt his debtor obout
to remove out this Stated Btit one
-gen-lernan has called this bill Uncon
stituiional, an other inexpedient, an
oiher impolitic and unnecessary.
If either oT these objections to the
si(tle opposed to the passaee of it. I
-Bu'. hevteVetfhr in a very different
light from these gentlemen. v He
thought it a perfectly harmlbds and
tinofTending bill, calculated to do
that justice to an honest creditor to
which he was entitled against a dis
honest Debtor about to deprive him
of his property.
Let us see, snid Mr, C. if the
bill be unconstitutional , because if
it is, there will be an end of it. I No
- one could be in favour of a bill which
violated either the Constitution of
U, States or of this State.
The gentleman from Salisbury
has quoted that article of the Con
stitution of the U. States, which for
bids the making of any law which
shall impair the obligation" of Con
tracts. What, he asked, is the pi an
meaning of this article ? What
tvould a member of the Convention
-which formed that article say, if he
wcie asked, was intended by it ? He
thonght the plain answer would be,
you shall enact no law- making
mon'ey of less value than silver or
"gold atenderin payment of debts,
you $ hall not increase the creditors
lairn. , or diminish the obligation of
he d eb or. - this provision had
relat'n n entirely to the quantum of
jpayrr.c nt.
the gttleman says, though
this Ml 1 may hot be a direct viola
of j the constitutiop, yet it adds
Lvrb, and the day of payment was
a distant one, there was an implied
obligation understood, that the debt
or would not remove away oeiore
that tifrie. It ims was a correct
view of the situatio of parties at the
time of entering into a contract, this
bill, so far from impairing any such
biieation, onlv put it in the power
of the creditor to prevent the debtor
from breaking his obligation.
It has been said, that this is an
improper law, because no legisla
ture ever passed a similar one. He
supposed gentlemen knew this as
sertion was correct He himself
had no evidence before him of what
had been done by other Ltgislatures.
He deemed it to be a sound maxim
that laws ought to be calculated to
suit the condition of those for whom
they are made. This Sta'e may be
considered, in some measure s a
Mo her Country, from which our
citizens ar - con. ntly emigrating to
Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio and the
Mississippi. . A law of the kind now
;. ruposrd may therefore be neces
sary h re, though a similar provi
sion mav not be wanted in btaUs dif-
fcreutly circumstanced.
The measure had been called im
politic. He could nt see ho.w a
bi I wh ch proposed a cheap, easy &
effectual way of enforcing trie obser
vance of contracts, could be impoli
tic. He was willing to allow debtore
had rights, but creditors had rights
also. I
He ilways looked upon a man who
had parted with his property, on the
faith of another who had disappoint
cd him with a favorable eye. Bui
he would deal equally between them;
no long as the debtor remains here ;
but if he attempts to remove himself
and property, he woud give the cre
ditor the remedy proposed by thi
bill. I
The gentleman from Salisbury
puts ajnexremH case, by supposing
a ma'i to entt rinto a contract to re
discharged many years hence ; who
oy a removal, Yould be obliged to
comply with the terms of this biU.
Mr. C said P a eotor, alter a
contract was made, resolved to
quit the State, this change ought
not to operate to the prejudice ot nis
creditor. Let him, before he takes
.his departure, make his creditor se-
cure ; he ought not in reason to ob
i ct to it, ,
f . V
Bui the gentleman has sa.d, it h
unnecessary to provide by law fo:
what (may be provided for' by con
tract i but a condition in case of re
moval, would be a new kind of obli
sratiori. He asked gentlemen whe
ther it vfould not be deemed an in
sult for one neighbor to suppose tha
another might remove, whew he wa
. . "if
about to make a bargain witn nim,
and when he had no such idea ?
The gentleman from Craven had
cautioned the house against making
encroachments on the common law.
It ought, said Mr. C, to be altereu
whenever necessary. What, he ask
cd, is common law ? It is made up
of the Usages and custom of G. Bri
tain, from whenceour laws are prin
ciplly derived and whenever this
contmoh law does not suit our cir
cumstances, it becomes necessary to
alter it, and make it Applicable to
our actual situation.
It was asked if debtors had no
rights? Yes; but they ought not
to have the right of running away
from their creditors. If these wen;
the rights which the gentleman wish
ed to secure, he could not .agree with
him. He could see no analogy be
tween the case of a debtor being pre
vented from leaving the state until he
had secured the debt due to his cre
ditor, and a man being within prison
bounds. No creditor puts his debtor
n prison, until his1 property is, ex
hausted. This bill will not operate
aeainst a man who means to act ho
neatly: it will only affect those who
wish tp avoid paying their just debts
Tha til jtrill djperate very favpral
not become security for his neighbor
t f he kne w hat ;hev vyould remove
from (the countr Tjfore Ms debt be
came duei - 0 the ttrary there
was ar implicit proiiss n iuph oases.
a clog to contracts. He would snew
tharthis apprehension was entirely
without foundation.
Whenever a contract was entered
that the debtor would remain to pay U
Ins debU This bill will provide a
remedy for cases where the securi
ties would be involved, and often
times ruined. '
It has been caid, inconvemencies
of this kind might be guarded by ta
king mortgages on real Estates. But
in cases of sales by Executors or Ad
ministrators, how could ?his be, done ?
These sales are always on a credit of
ix or twelve monthr. 1 A man pur-
hases at one of thee sales, and his
neighbor becomes his security. Be
fore the time of payment the purcha
ser goes off, and the Executor or Ad
ministrator could not, by any pre
caution of his, under tire present laws,
secure the debt.
This bill is calculated to prevent
ollusion between the creditoraud
nis debtor to the injury of a security.
It often happens that creditors con-
uve at the debtors, and afterwards
ompel securities to pay the dtjbt
This bill entitles the security to have
the same remedy with the principal
creditor.
It was Said the other day that this
was an attempt to provide by statute,
what might at present be obtained
from a Court of Equity, But he b:
lieved it, was the duty of the Legisla-
ure to provide for grievances by law
where we can, and not drive our citi
zens into Courts of Equity. He sup
posed Courts of Equity would allow
relief; if so. why not put it in the pow
er of Courts of Law to do so. The
gentleman had said that Courts ot
equity aid not. grant writs ot we
Exeat Regno before the debt became
due. i In this he differed in opinion
with the gentleman, though he did
it with great deference.
It will be recollected what difficul
ty was experienced some yrars age
in preventing actions from abating bt
he death of either party. &ut wt
find the difficulty has been removed
by a simple act prodding that they
shall Ije carried on y their Repre
sentatives. .Cases low go on, not
withstanding the deh of the partir s
Hthought a remedy foran evil which
had been much complained of, would
be found in this bill, should it pass
into a law. . j
Mr. G, concludedby saying he had
endeavoured to answer the objections
which had been riade against the
bill. If it was imperfect, he would
be glad of the assistance of gentle
men to-make it rrpre perfect ; and
then properly amended, he hoped
it would meet wito the approbation
of a majority of the house.
Mr9 E. Harris rose to remark
upon an assertion of the gentleman
from. Orange, that when two per
sons enter into a contract, there is
m implied obligation on the part of
he debtor, that he will not remove
ut of the State until the debt is dis
. narged. He nerer heard of such
an obligation before. On the con
rary, it was well knovn at the time
f making of anr contract, that ei
her party was allowed to go where
ne pleased. So tar from there being
any implied contract of this kind,
the bill now before the house is an
Attempt to make one.
Mr. Cameron explained.
,Mr. NoawoOo would not rouble
the house with many observations on
this subject. It has been said that
this bill infringes the constitution of
iheU. States by impajring contracts.
It appeared, to him, on the contrary
that the present bill contemplates an
enforcement of the same principle
with the article of the Constitution
alluded to both provide that con
racts shall be faithfully . performed.
Mr. N. explained the intention o
he article of the Constitution, which
he said was to prevent any payment
of debts with any thing but actua
cash."
It had been objected to this bill
that it encroaches on the common
law ; but we should recollect tha
we derive Our common law from the
Kingdom f of Orreat-Britain Ou
judtres consider tnemseives' as
bound by the decisions of the Eng
Jish courts," aiid by the statutes of
England, so far as thev are applica
ble to ourjcircumstances, as well as
by the acts of this Legislature.
Owing 6 the difference of the two
countries, however, there are prin
ciples in force here, which are no
I in force, in England, and many in
i force there which have not operation
here. Our courts cannot extend these
principles ; they can only be extend-
ed by the Legislature ; and if we
refuse to do so, ons- accoantof -the':S
danger of making alterations in the
common law, no improvement in our .
policy will ever take place.
It has been said there is noim
plied contract beivten a" creditor and
his debtor. ; fie believed it was un-
derstood at the time of the contract,
thftthe debtor is under, the moral
ligation to attend, on the creditor
anday. hira his money when ii be-
comes due, or that he would be in
the way of process being served upon
him ; but if, instead of this, he re-
moved tiom the btate, he looked up-- ; contract. -i t ;t -on
it as a species of fr ud, and it had I Some 'answer had been attemntA
that operation, . (:
v ih-v.icu itiat una um we ;
nit', uucu uieif y to provide ior tne
negl ct of parties to a contract. If
this obiecvion were to have weight, i
it wouki prevent any law agatnsvga- I
ming, tor the provision were in-1
Ltuncu lupiuicci tne ignorant against ;
the cunning of gamblers. The sta-1
tute against usury is founded on the
same principle And this is right.
The ignorant and incautious, ought
to be protected against the crafty and
designing. : Nine tenths of the iiu
habitants of this country would never
think of asking for any security of a
purchtserin case of removal; When
neople are set lcd and have no tho't
of removing, such a provision would
not be made. This bill ought there
fore to pass to remedy this evih -
Mr,. Gasto?j observed, that it was
not his intention u m ke a ( single
remark on this bilh; but as it had
been deemed of so much importance
as to be decided by the Yeas and
Nays, he wished to ussign the rea
sons for his vote, which he would do
in as few worda as possible. N u
It would be recollected, that when
this bill first camebefore the house,
he intimated come doubt as fo the
correctness of its nrincioles He
j
had since considered it his duty to
pay further attention to it. He had
alo listened to the arguments of gen
tlemen on the subject ; and the re
sult ot Ins ewn reflections and these
arguments, have not tended to re
mdve, but to cqnfirm those doubts.
In the warmth of discussion, both
the advocates and opposers of this
bill have gone farther than was
necssary. He did not s ppose the
evils of-the bill would be so great
as its enemies represented them, and
the advantages predicted from it by
itafiiends, he believed were, in r. great
measure, lmacrinarV.
The first circumstance which led
him to doubt the correctness of the
principle of this bill was its novelty. 4
lNot only the country irom which
most of our laws are bcflrowed, not
only our Sister States have notadopt
ed the principle ; but in no civilized
nation has it been put in practice.
W ith him, who was always doubtful
of the correctness of his own under
standing, and suspicions and jealous
of any measure, when he found no
country or age had evr adopted it,
foe thought it extraordinary that N.
Carolina, that this Legislature, at this
day should have discovered an im
portant principle for the preservation
ot civilized government, which had
escaped the attention 6 all nations
before . This suspicion was increas
ed, when he recollected that the si-
uation of North-Carolina was not
different from other countrie s. Man
kind ail proceeded from one common
stock, , there have been always mo
ther countries and countries id which
persons migrated from the mother
country. Before the Revolution, the
people of G. Britain migrated to these
colonies ; they now migrate from G.
Britain to the East and West-Indies.
Is it not extraordinary, that in a coun- J
try where the laws are not remakaJ
ble for favoring deb' or s, and where
emigrations are so much greater
than they are here, and where the
people do not remove a few hundred
miles on!', but some thOuiids of
miles, across a vast ocean,! that no
such pCedent is found in that
coudtryrbut: that it is first bruht
forward in a Republican Legishtu e.
Great-Britain is not the only coun
try w hich has colonies. Franc&had
them in the Esst .and in the ;Wst ;
but we never heai d-of such a prece
dent as this iii that country. We
l hayealio a nunj$;r f ?isterStatt;
from which migrations are constant-
Jy taking place; - Arer they dea tof
all tlheir interests ethry dead tO;v
the'ignts.iftnrediior Isit leitfor
us to give- sanction to the attach- '
merit of a debtor before his debt ba
i comes due.
Ad mjttinir these reasons have no
! Treightj let us look at the vprincipiejir;
.itsejf. . 4 ' ;';'v':vr- '
It? is not only a soterari Injanctiott $
; of tfce Constitution of the fetateVi
but ;it is a sacrsxl principle in, theV r
heart df every man itiat good faith, v
is to be observcrl inll contracts-.
That neither more nof legs is' espeqr-'
led of a man than is stipulated in his
by the gentleman from "Orange to ,
utc iunsiuuilOaai ODieCUpn to this
mil,
Con
by saying t hat he article in the
btiution only relates to the quarW
turn
ot payment, 1 He, however-
could see no reason for this restrict
tioniof the words." He askedif acon-
trscf was not as much impaired bxr
compelling a foarl to pay his debt'
be fob it is due, as by compelling:
himjtb pay more than is due
. . Another and still more ingenious:
argument, waV used by the same
gentleman in favor f this bill. For
a moment it seemed to satisfy nm
It wrihanhere was arr implied tb
ligation in 'all Contracts, that the
debtor shbuldjnot remove away a:i
ooiigation not binding in law; but
binding in equity., That this bill
was 'not intended to alter this obliga- 1
tionj but merely to give it effect
Lt us see? said Mr- G. whether
this bill is such as merely to give ef
fect to th implied obligation. Th
gentleman's idea ig, that when a man
stipulates to pay money, he engages
to be there on the day, or leave pro
perty tw pay i..;. But what does this '
bni sa ? If thedebu r leav-vth slale :
be t . Jre t h ed at y of p ay r. - . nipfwpe rty
may; be at ached ; though there is n
thing in the contract wmch binds the.
debtor to do moretha pay thy mony
on ascertain day which he m y returN
and do, and thereby taunfuiiy fulfiL -
uis conrractf . ,
But it has been stated also, that if -a
debt or means to be honest, no in
jury! wilfbe done to him by the bill j.
Let him remain and he is safe. He
is safe if he remains in th? State
but every man ought to be safo;'until ' '
he 'mmits some act f h?fhi is
yiolitionfthe laws of his 'ctjuhtry
is -ine?- removal ot a debtprcut nT ono .
couritry to another, and frm whicli
he may intend to returni:offnce 7
aga'mst morality or law ?? Whlnce
do you derive the power of fettering;
your citizens, and of inflicting punish
rriehts .where no offence has been
committed I ' r ;.
these were the objections to this 1 I"
hiH which had struck him as being
too strong to be got over. AH con
siderations of expediency and consi
derations for the niore easy coilec
tion of debtsvmust give, way to con
stitutional objections, and ta restrict
tions onthe natural rights of man.
Mr. Baker observed, that muchv
stress had been laicl upon thii law.
being without precedent. NoWo -
thejiind, it had be ;n said had beeni '?
passed either in Grca -Britam or ouri
Sister States. He did'tiot pretend
tO a perfect knowledge of the lavvs
of ;0ur Sister States. But,rsuppo-
sing this to be the facU are we, he
saidi always to be behind hajd in
the improvement of our policy, and,
in correcting grievances. Perhaps
the evils proposed to pe rerredied,
imay not be so great in bther'espect&
as it is in , this. f it is a gnevan e
herej and ought to be corrected if pos
sible. .
Mr; M'GikpsEv observed, that it
was lnot his intention to say a single?
vord in the present contest, but as it
was ; a question of so much impor
tance, -wherein the public good is so)
highly interested, he would beg leave
to make a fow semtionsr ,
1 he gteatobject of makincr laws
lie, conceived to be to protect the
rights ot the citizens affainSt jnigry
and oppression Then it suftly re
quires the first degree df atiiehtfon.
of this legislature, to view therftdvan'
tages that oulreauWfroiek
lawor the injuries thatwojplrlsei
to tlie citzens irom catrymg ItihttK
effect. And if the injuries which;
would arise from its. operation, are