ii
ii i mt ii V ' ' fol
.1
f
i ccwjGREiSlONAL'DEBAT&S
FOREIGN RE LA TIONS.
4 ' V
Mu MAC63r"tldf before the
caeiiwVwas uirti, he withed to
nAc TeirobscrTttion'f, -m doing
vhtch he ou7d enlJeaTor to follow
th-airice jf 'the gentleman from
M"irj!Mf- Ne!son)!irho( had
' fa 4t don i oei;nrr w. rpi
irfutert had "id, nor to .make
& lone speech. He felt no dipoi-
tioo to uti5c uicnuujtvt
Mf.M. stid.he had stated, when
ht iutrodated-ievcral. resolution
some dip pt, that there were but
three ihettiiutcs submission to
the edicts' of the to belligerents
who h.d injured us ar-or a
continuance of the . embargo. II
there were any other he bad not
tiivct)Tercd it, nor had any one 7ct
told the Haiaeof another but if
any other VuctTt of the Sime
ends, should be ofored, tkat would
be more sausfactory to others, hr
ntas ndt so much artachtd to" the
embargo, as to prerent bis voting
. for that. :
. Do we kMvr, said Mr. M tha'
-we hitc a iog?e friend in the cl
Yyired worlJ. Wc nare no Han
rftal at the gate ; but Rome and
Carthage bare both' declared against
us. Upon, our own means alone
've roast depend, and if properly
rmcijed, tber are equal to the cri-
1E1S. , t ... .
The second resolution reported
by the cdminiitce, Mr. l. said was
ia substance' tHe same with two
thit he had moved. , On jhis sub
ject he had reflected much, no?
oly . since his anvil herei but
whilst at home On. the subject of
the embargo, he had endeavored to
ascertain the opinion of well infor
med met-chanti and havigatdrs, doi
of kt-. political party but of both
The result cf ihe enquiry was,.that
the embargo was a wise measure,
and it was considered by some,, to
hare saved to the U S. fifty thou
sand sailors and fifty millions of
property. . This ras the smallest
namberof either which- had been
mentioned to him, and was net con
sidered too high. ,
If you . raise the embargo, said
Mr. i. what will yo i do? Sub
mission is out of the question ;and
tbercrs'rto proposition for war on
your tsble. VThis Js a proof that all
consider bar present sttuatioWbctter
thao actual war i . and in! my opi
nion, the embargo, aided by the se
cond resdutton which proposes u
imn-iniercourse; will produce all thr
effects which canje desired,, by us
on the twgreat belligerent nations.
The second resolution proposes to
put both these nations on the same
footing. In f their conduct to us
there is not much, if any difference
C. ttriuin impresses , our seamen
ai -meted - the Chesapeake fri-
gale, sod Franee pays'no regard 6
v. the treaiy which now exists be
tT.eo the tw countries! In every
.tnelse I consider them as acting
tow-nls us alike, and at aH times on
the same principles. At this' mo
inent we have a law prohtbiung'the
) importation of certain goods from
Bntain, and the ormtd ships, of
that nstion are p.-ohibitcd by precis
in ition from coraiuij in to our V
te.-s. Adopt the rcsohition and you
p ce!he two nttion- on .the same
footing, and if one or both thill nut
like the s-tui ion, they know how
to get out of It, We only want
them to Yet iustly towards us, and
ucihtng more.
When gentlemen talk cf trarling
to th.s or that pltce under present
ciraiTmtancei, they seem to forget
t.i- o r.n.potencc of the English
licet, md ihit to carry on their de
sired tndc, ihcy must fiht their
vray through that ficct. Permit me,
air, to add a few vords as to war
snth both nations. Both have loar
cfKleavorcrt to c,tus into ihe war
' 00 l,,r s,Jt-nd if xrc now en, to
-warthhHh.iriUb.only a no
minal war with Franr .v.ti
; be an actual war witjiEbgliridi and I
; long athe British fleet prevents!
A . the l-rtnchvdse! . from nn4
I mind is an aaaiuonai rcasou v
duce us to try the embargo -some
time loogent To me it fs as clear as
noon day, that you cannot trade cx
cept toG. Britain and her dependen
cies without fighting your waf thro1
her fleet. .. I bave another reason
for wishing totry tlie embr5
some time longer, and .' to have it
amended in such manner .as to
prevent evasion. rM s this ; that
from ,the earliest; age of our, cbun
try, we have believe, that by with
holding our supplies and. withdraw
ing from, the .ocean.for a awhile, we
could bring the roost powerful Eu
ropean nation to, '.fair. term ..-The
experiment iil ncvr malting, and I
am desirous that it should he.: fairly
made ; that if it' succeed vrc shall
know the value of the measure, and
if it fail, "hereafter we may not de
pend on it. v ;
Some gentlemeni living not very
far from roe, have advanced opinions,
on the subject of the carrying' trade,
against which I now, as. I always
have done, whenever I have heard
them advanced protest, I ara now
willing, and always was willing to
go as far as any member ct the
(louse in the protection' of the trtde
which fairly grew" oat of the agri
culture and fisheries of the U. . S.
I never will consent to risk the best
interests of the nation, for a trade
which we can carry on only when
Europe is at war. I do not hesitate
to maintain this opinion at this time,
notwithstanding the cry, that a part
f the U. S. are not only willing
to cramp trade but to destroy It.
recurrence to the laws will shew
he great encouragement which has
been g ven to it. Is the drawback
nothing ? Are the discriminating
datiesnothtng ? Besides these, ma
ny other things have been done for
radc. Atteiupt to repeal only one
f them, and you will immediately
produce a ferment among the mer
chants. Ask the sailor too, who
is brought home by the government,
if nothing has beep done for him ?
The uncommon state, in which
Europe has been placed by the lati
and the present war, ought to make
us at legist cautious, not to enter in
to war with France and England,
provided we can by just means keep
out of it. Ther is no visible oh
ject for which they are contending,
unlecs it be for the mastery of Eu
rope. 4 They have by some means
or other involved every nation in
Europe in their wars and quarrels,
and have nearly ruined and destroy
ed all of them.'. Vhen. gentlemen
speak of the evils which we suffer,
not I say in consequence of the em-
bafgo, but Ot their vickecl orders
and. decrees,, let fnem compare our
situation; and that too as bid as
they declare it, with that of any na
tion which has gone into the war,
and they will find that we have cause
to rejoice. Compare it with that
of Swrd'enwho has' not suffered so
much as many olhefs, and they must)
Desaiisixeu.inat our situation is iar
better than' that of the Swedes. Vc
have .enough of the necessaries of
Jifc to make us coutent, and tlur.'U
no nation iq the vorld, at this time,
that enjoys more of the luxuries of
Europe and of the East and West
muies man wcoo ; in a worn, none
that ejoys more of the goxad things
of this world. ' '
We have heard as much said about
the possibility 'of a trade to Spain, to
Porrugal, to.the West Indies, and to
outh America, as if that trade was
fairly open to ui and perfectly se
cure. But when you compare .this
yrtth what the gentleman from-New-YoTk
(Mr. Mumord told us aboa;
the Frcnchofncer,.and the( disposi
tions of the people of Orleans, (and
1 1 egret he'menUvnedtbern, because
they have no delegate, here) your 'at
tention will b drawn from thisN pos
sible trade, to the Yrobpsin Nova
LScotiaand Jamaica j I will not ha-
aard a cotijcciute as'to their destin
ation,' but t will say we ought , not to
forget themr. AVhen-I.wai up be
fore I mentioned the spirit of H&f
,A gentleman froirf .Massachusetts
(Mr. Quincy) has since made 'many.
remarks, onb:UfSprnt, hut as ae .bas
alreadyj bcen'sUfactoVily answered
by, othcri; IhMl only -addV.' that it
was-1 spirA at ,ni iijncsvi a spirit ot
jurrender the rights of the nationj
lino CttrU.lw, t!- t.
.Mvuvif ,ium it vrtxsa pacincapi
nt ;. having told the world, thak the
United States were1 independent it
only required or.Great-Brltain jo
withdraw her troop3 and 'do us fus-
tlCC. . v ;;.V;; t
GentJcrnch z cem from their argu
ments' to tuppbse'that only rne. parr
of the ;untax&intcreiteI oa this-sub-'
jcct.Jt fs a a'lbjctf (Sirf in -which
the whole nation have a common in
terest.,. foreign1 ? nations undertake
to dictate to you, and to tax you, and
yet only one part "of the people inter
ested ! i TThe ;fame utlcman from
Massachusetts; ,seenied to coniidn
it a question of .tride Be it so, tur
thesake of argujtitnt. Then he jfully
proved to my :roind, that if the 'em
bargo was of . we should have little
or no trade," because he saysthere
is no danger of 'your Pying tribute
to England, for this plain reason, that
if you go there; yoj cannot go thence
to France or her dependencies, with
out your prop rty. bci.ig confiscated.
Then, sjr, carry all the produce of
i his nation to England without the
right to go elsewhere for a maiket,
and yoii instantly glui that" market ;
and experience has taught .. as, ; that
under such circurastants,? thp-price
would scarcely, pay the; charges and
duties. - Let it not be forgoteh that
whfcn we had a sort cf -warwith
France, the price of tobacco .fell. to
almost nothing, compared to that
which it bore before. I speak of to
bacco, beoause I am better acquaint
ed with the price of that than any; fa
ther article which . we eXDort, Be
fore the war it was ten dollars per
hundred at Petersburg, in4 Virginia,
and in great demand ; and. before
the war ended.it was not ro-ifre than
thiee dollars at the same pj ice, and
not in demand. ' The true Vj use of
this fall in the price, was understood
to be, that all the British markets
were completely glutted, ard that
there was great difficulty in getting
it to a market on the comiair.t ol
Europe. How has this same nrticle
been affected at the same. pla:e by
the embargo When it was lain,
the price there did not exceed -four
and a half dollars, and it iut not
been less than three since. This, to
my mind, fully proves, that the' em
bargo has not injured the price Vof
it whatever the orders and decrees of
France and England ; may ,: Hivei
done.. No one can doubt, that if
you were to raise the embargd,' the
first cargoes to Great Britain would
command a good price ; but' the
moment the market wa& glutted, it
would scarcely pay the charges; V
. If I understood . the . Femleraafy
from Massachusetts, rightly he , said,
that when I introduced the.' resolu
tions, I spoke wiUt uncommon zeal j
Mr. . tmncy esplaintd. .He had
said the gentleman had spoken, with
azeal which did him honor. Sir,
permit me to assure that gentleman,
that it was with no other aeal than
for the welfare of our common coun
try , .-j.-' ."
The gentleman 'from Virginia
(Mt. Eanddlph) used dn argument
anfnst thecrnbaraf -"find thrtr -phin
now proposed, whiqh o my mind
was conclusive in4 favor of both. . I
thank him for it, becanse it; s a bet
ter one thari had ocenrred to trie, tte
asked, who could ha''c supposed that
the two great conflicting interests of
trie nation, the agricul ual and com
mercial, would have united to shp.
press all trade ? Can there te a
stronger evidence of the correctness
of the measure, thanithe union of
these great conflicting interests in
support of it ! AVould they'join to
srupport a measure which injured
.them,both ? No, sir, it was' the in
terest', of both that4united them. Ari
attempt has been made to compare
ihe pljin before yoa to trie Chinese
policy.' VKoinari in ; the n tion can,
it seems to meseriouy -believe,
that we intend to 'introduce such ja
.system"; but I will ask', would not
Chinese policy. havePbeen better for
some "orttie nations -of Eurcpej' than
the policy whicti theiiave pursued X
Would it hof i have been better for
Ritnsia
Jn:thc'part!chAl-Ka.cfn
the .frhpie, of ihtl business,' ifikrtow
juy own neart, "tnere ; i)".1' uu
thing of pirtyjin iUV.f have been
ff question n any shape' in which any
memoer mignt wisn io nayc v us
cussed i ; and I differ very inuch from
tn'egepUeinan.&oita yjrgiriia,Mr.
bawspn) who has exprsseri a desire
Co - have Jthe A question mmeiately ;
aken. I nbpejthat eyerpember
who Vishes to give his serjUmentv
AviU be hearcl, and)ieard paitently ;
Tnd-if ah one should: be jdesifbustif
speaking more ithart' , rme'e he wilt
haYcmjr consent to speak twenty'
times, if he desires itr If the em
bargo has produced no. goodi and is
now only produetngevil,- it ought to
be repealefl; But I rmly; believe
that it has"produced much good,, and
if the laws be. properly amended, that j
it will prcduce all the good that ever
was expected from it ; for, I 'cannot
believe, notwithstanding the opmion
of the gentleman trom viassapnu
setts, that any respectable rmart will
be found violating tfie law-of his
country ; ' v' ;' e; i '-
i If you raise the embargo,!-where
will you trade ? You cannot calculate
on trading to Spain and Portugal, &
their dependencies, without the con-
sent of Great-B-iuin ? For nolwiih
staoding they are contendjngfor their
in(lecndence,jit is" with the aid: of
England ; and without 'that "aicl they
could not do I much, because they
could not gel all the suppliesthar
they stand in need of. ; It isndt ma-
r terial to me, in the present question.
i for what Spain and Portugal are con
tending ; but so far as they are con1
tending for self-government T wih
fhem success. It is not in their powr
r with prance on one sideb and G.
Britain on the other, to afford us
commerce on any just terms. -
; I agree with gentlemen that in a
state of wary, .'.some of the- jsea port
towns will suffcr.mbre than the inte
rior country ; but it is equally true
that they mil have ail the advantages
resulting from the expenditure of
ihe public money, by which they
will be enabled to speculate with pro- I
fit on the boiihtry. f iK
There is but one tvav-When- bad
Mws are passed, to hay e them' al
tered, and thit is by eleCUoris. They
are the only, correctives not pnly a
ga'rnst th'era, but against every abuse
of power.. These have lately taken
place, and so jar as I am acquainted
they : terminated favorably to. the
embargo ; in;: some districts it vas
made a question but: without -effect.
In others where a change has takti
place, it is rjot pretended that, the
e mbargo hadj much effecti probably
'hone. i -J. . .' .
; It appears to me that there never
was a time, in which it wa3 more
necessary than . the present, practi
cally to observe one of the admoni
tions. printed on the nld. continental
money ; UNITED WE STAND, DIVI
DED ve fall. -Nothing but a strict
ttrnrinn tn.th? ran r.nre our
J rights ; it will, as ormerly, secure
to us all that we . ought in justice to
expect. , If on a . fair experiment,
I the pr9poscd plan does not produce
the desired eiiect, and xtnen nave a
seat: 'in the national' legislature,' I
will go as far as any member in a
JpUape,M)k mea wires, as shall Ke
best calcu 1 attd " to enforce ' oiir n a.
tional rights;; Y " - ' v ..
. I have-nolhing more to say I
have expressed my ideas in avery
desultory inaqne,r Just as they, hav
occurred.. I did not , expect-to ad
d're's'3 you to-day. , I have endea
voured to do that which I promised ;
not to repeat, w(spc oiners nave, saio,
find thorugh! I hayey tired myself,' I
nope i nave noi lauguea me iious.c.
1
IN SENATE Dec. 20.
DEB ATE oil .the Bill to suspeact Etecu
- tions for tim? : therein mentioned;
vThe bill being oh its second read
incf,?and a! number of Verbal anaend
menis naving iaen piace, y.;-.;.':
i Mr, To OLE moved to strikeout of
the bill AipartofHheIastisectign
which .excepted, Trom Jts;prat't6n:
berO as' being in conflict 2wiihth
3 rd Section fef rM BilBoHight
WhlclrU in; these; .wblda-v.TJM
man Jof set ;of mertare fentit!e1crtcV1
vices 'Caitief 'A efSS I !
billyVby adding thattoart of the
secUorihichxori
operatSoa ottDe UMsf0::
8cc whah waieotqv5f--
l. Mr. rfoYLt prwW
ing provisoF
irei cm. Luiiicu -.t siisui , utx veui any . -
amendment The"cois;ofuite
vi?d asjKereto
th: any: !l0fM ttrfl
' vMr.oolbi'Jwl
quehtly Wergreater thauelbi ?x :
nal debt.ruch.vpi4iorijWo
therefore tdrfi-atvihe bbjeci ormDili: T:
' Mr. fickibts d ihaexcept -some
provision ' similarrtohis y$f'
introduced into ihte bill iyduiSto?
Derate with great aHsjfiip-i
neseSi vno;wouin nenitireid m av-
tend fpive"'evidel
ing arijr" lining for their xpenceS F
Mor did he fnnf; ittjld oeriRh t
o ooiige.irjie-oiii.Gers oi laecouu w , , y
perform seryiceaVjand'at igf; j
time5 say theyhafl f ecietv1 nocohi ; j
pen? atiorf therforfottwelvewmjhs ;
; Mr. W&lb$$i
law vpuld oear hard vifiort witnesses ; '.
but; itou!:;ba1p
torsi f and up alexcepfc thx6ebr ':f$B-
tors who took adyantacre of iti:-iHe,
hoped the amendment would not be
received. r' : ' ' ' r';
k Mr, Selbt hoped the amendmen'tT
would obtai,,' Man,y officers irof ;
courts' depended upon 1 theiTee$ for 4.
uppor, -auuu wouioe wrong', to
put Jupoa
passage ?L y s,r 7
Mr. AVfiLLBbBtf saidr ,ivhen he '
came to this place, 4i mind wasten
decided as to the prppriety of passing tv ,
a bill of 'this4 kind f-andifhentero'J:
to Tote for it1, itVoulci be for th
comraodathia of other; parfk c, the ;
$tatef andnothahichherepresen"
ted. .- But, -as yet,ne Jiad Eear no ;-
thing which shewed the necessity x
the measure, until he heard some ,
thmg- to convinces him that the peof
ple.iare'unablei frpm Uilbw1 pnceJ'
of produce, to -pay their;debtswithv ,
out being driven tot diitressbo
should totc"4igains(brpas3j'g9S
ihebiiy-if hje.stpodV;afene ;HeVwas
unwUling;ta
not only on accouhj;' ofiiHendei ange '
ment which tt would .proquce inso-
eiery', biii friprfthernpreloa.U
was calculated i&iiitoFb,re5g4'' '
nations. It wilhrl'thentfthatuhe ,
people of Ndrth-Utolint are Unable?
toljear thc.enectif th6 Embargo
tu',rU thSir. imintVrriett urcs havei
obliged our Gene raTOqvern men t to
adopt., MMsnpaiiuiPK'").
catSe he iid,rnotVielie.ye;tht trvia
mivi nn cthijiiinril? Hedfd 'not'bfe-
roistres exist,eu ' v
Jpme . gentl4men ' -
to passj Mr. Wafoh'bt theJSenatq .
ha5 Verv " imprbpeilf l'ltiutk lout
of it ve xclausfwhicntcludetv
from S'. operaUo4Vion!:s f
vision, ii wuuia uei uw.'Jii4auAuf ,
thBahks'fe JendmnV ' b'e A
cause it;woul3scertainly dbv'cI rSllvt
Druaent m inoseznsuiOTiDnir u r
niah rbm.WiTcs Would not be alono . j
Dress
we are 1
did not beueverany; measure, .could
Kee p tnem outsat inese xuf jconiem- - y i i .
plated by tlits biD -K'1 HI
The amendment Wshegativco.?. t l
The bill ' was i then DUtUDonits- . j f
ney.wneatheycpuia naveno;
iiance on the punctuality of the ficv to (
rowers. Besides, this lsvereatir U 7
gainst the interest ,)qt ftHGove
nient ; for having cpdsiderable5tqcji v v
ineachof theJBaiiksit will f&cIa&J&l' J
mg unout money m the vaulU to t
the BahKs'where tt lSirtSook'
brodcing any1 1n&rest;H; :V'
in nis.voie against wie passage otiu i
mf .He believed (tkalam6f V
kind woNjld Impair' J
contractsV. ahd thtrefork viola-
ttoAof the iohstitutidof ihe United: " r
the;BnttrirMini j 1 ?'
lMr wai also uhfavyajC.!t I y I ' Jj tl
cd tQwards1ihU"b111but 5 Ii
MrPicK?:
uTjHmprcssfcd
h rml rf vnt ft i n twmi or i ta.: mt.z
a seconu.rcau
i-of great
t :V' it I
il
1
Vi:.'
1 - 1
r5f
il
7
1