Newspapers / The Weekly Raleigh Register … / Nov. 29, 1810, edition 1 / Page 1
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.-. . $ i: - mmrnmmmmazm- -a aa; aaaaa 'legislature of ' North-Carolinal: 7 DEB ATE . . . ; on - ' . . 7 PUBLIC PRINTING. Acfttibly to the order of the day, the took up for consideration' the fol JTg resolution introduced bj Air. Vtiatx i eomiitt with true Repab. b Uixhful duchifs of the re iLudt daty tocoMUieconora in ibeex- Uif f P1 moojr; . Awl whe LTfOttwatrf to thUGenen Aiumblj, thu c-iid'tre aanuofly eipeudcd for prinJbg tnd Lntctirg U of the Sine when it is tc cwJ h cab be done for a much lest rtrt r thrrtfgrc, that it u expedient Hib(pd Ttsuliun the Public Piinnng; ia pxh i tBinntr that it tnaj be done for the ktn prce. . M.Owek took notice of a rematk inuie by the Editors in the last Regis ter is to the amount of compensation, paring, that if he had made an error cf t f?w dollars, it could not ha?e been with i view of representing that the Printer received more than was actually paid, because he had omitted to add to his statement S75 which is paid to him for extra services during the session Mr. Mcmfobd proposed 'to amend the Keolutioo by fixing the salary of the Printer at SKXWf which should in clude the delivery of the Acts of Assem bly and Laws of Congress. Mr.OwsM was opposed to the amend ment, because it would defeat tho in-, tcntion of the origin-1 resolution. He belieud the business could be. obtained for a less sum. The object of the frirtids of this resolution is economy ; they wish thcr fore to get the Printing 'done for ihclowcstsum. And how can this best be done. We are not "judges of the ralue of printing. Proposals must be icccited from the Printers themselves. fur. Phifer was ;n favor of the ori ginal molu. ion, and opposed to the a ictndment. If he understood the object cf the resolution, it was to change the mode of disposing of the Printing Bu siness. Under the existing taws, this efnee is in the gift of the Legislature, ird is the means of exciting much par ty spirit at.the commencement of every sK.n,"and much enquiry whether the trim pad for the services performed is tu much or. too little. For his own pr he would W say what was trie va bjeof the work. If too much is paid, be was willing to lessen the sura. But he was desirous of doing away this of fice, and taking away the business from the Legislature entirely The duties ptrformcd by thi officer are merelyme cbanicaii and can be done by many in rfutduals. Why, then, shouldparty kclings be excited on this occasion, as u the State were endangered by med dling Hb this subjea. . The first ob ject occ;ht to br to repeal th'e present Lw,aod llien substitute some more eco nomical modei; Itwould be best to de cide upon .the principle firsri; if that was 'adoptrd then a bill mfght be intro duced to carry the principle Into effect. MrvLbvk. disliked both the original reolution and the proposed amendment ; the former because it sunt to letting out the busineM to tli c lowist bidder, and to t!e latter, because he apprehended it proposed to reduce the compensation to a tower sura than' was just and equitable. Mr. Lnv exhibited the course which the PrmuPK.,Business hzd taken, from the tear 1785 to the Drc sent tUne, In bit year, he stated, the salary of the Pub it Printer wa fixed at $00. Io the folldwrnV year it wis raised ' to 60O (wblch is the present salary); that ex t lusitc of this s!ary; he. found, on txz mination, that frotn 30 to 100 had every session, been allowed for extra printing .Int he yrr 1798 Mr. Hodge, who had held the office for many years, was removecYactf a gentleman from the 1 wer part of the State was elected, jln 1799, .Hodge Sc , Boylan' were elected, and at the scai6nrof that year petition t d tor an increase of allowance, on the tround ofincreased business, from the preat accession of Justices.-, This ap-' plicatif-o -was not successful. - In the flowing year Mr. Gales; was elected. In the year 1 804, complaints, similar to thwc heard at the present session," were made agatnst the. high price paid for printing, A committee was appointed Xr enquire into the duties arid compen sation of this cfilccV This committee, , j' . . - Mr. Owen is .here In xn artor. AVhit tormerly deemed extra aeTYcea after spending a considerable time upon the subjecC,-end consulting Mr." Hodge and Mr. Martin,(printers Uien in the ci ty) the former of whom said he had al ways, thought., the salary, too lowt and kill thought it so Mr. 'Iartih con curred in opinion that it ought not to be reduced. The committee, however, re ported a biil whic h passed into a law, in-1 qiuaing tne printing mercioiorc ucemcu extra printing within the s!ary. If the saUry .was too low in"1804, what, after this reduction, now renders it exorbitant, especial? when, it is well kribwn, the business is constantly increasing ? Mr. Love could not account for this apparent inconsistency. If, However, gentlemen were desirous of Romg into another en ouirv and invtsticratijn of the alie of j j - - the Public Printing, he should not ob- iect to it. But said Mr. L. the difficul ty lies in gettting correct information oh the subject. If we obtain a statement from Mr. Gales, that will not be rcKed o, nor ougnt sucn as cones uom ois . r t? competitors to be mere favorably recciv cd. How, thebjshaU a just estimate of the Value of this work be obtained ? For he took it for granted that the members of the Legislature were not competent judges on this subject. If the present allowance to the Printer were too high, no one would be more willing than him self to reduce it. He was as desirous as any other gentleman to relieve himsell and his constituents irom unnecessary burthens ; at ihe same time he waswil Jing to allow for this business wnat should be deemed a fair and liberal puce, ... in the same manner that he would be willine lo allow any individualin his pn vate capacity, what was deemed a fair and equitable price for bu Idin him a house, or tor executing omer woik. n his part, he had no notion tf letting put Offices to the lowest bidder. Bad con irhtv arise from it, We have nrinlers enoueri here, said he, a! nint 'hiit whn kriOWS but IQ 3 few r.ni4 ihpre mav not be more in an one or two left. If only one he might de mand his own price ; and if two they might unite and require double the sum which is now paid for the business. Mr. Love-suid, that he had drawn up an a mendment, which he thought calculated to obtain correct information from a pure source, and when that was before the Legislature they yvould act under standing! v upon the subiect. Mr. L was nmre-Vdint to read his amendment for -" o - rhp information of the house, when Mr. Owen and others called him to order. Mr. Love thought himself ip order; but . i ihe SneaKerDronouucingnimouicrwoe, he desisted. And concluded with ob serving that he wasiigainst setting any precedent for the letting out of Public Offices to the lowest bidder. It might It ad to the letting out the offices of the Clerks of the two Houses, tlits Comp troller's Office, and others. lie had no doubt nersons might be found who I would be willing to perform the duties of Mrh For a Itsium than now paiu. ne thought if Uft Treasurer, or some other of the Heads' of Department was direct ed to obtain correct information oh this auhiect, and lay it before the Legislature, j all dttneumea wooia vanian. i no sala ry would" be fixed, and the different prin- ters would nejt noeny tooucr mur vices. . 'r- - . Mr. -Wr.io thought the-gentleman ftm Haywood completely out of order. His opinion was, that the house ought, in tht fiist p'ace, to act on ine resoiuuon ; nT the rrentieman irom iiiaaen. 11 mat should fail, then any gentleman might bfing forward any, other proposition The few observations;Whtcb be should make, therefore, would apply to the olv ginal resolution; it order to co'rae to the truth of this'bosincss ; at a know- ledge whether the Public Printing costs more than it ought to do, let us, said he, J revert to ourstatute book there we shall see what are his duties and what is his compeflstiOn. , Mr. AY. read extracts I from the act of 1804 nrescubingthe du-JI ties and compensation of the Printer, After which he added that 8hout g50 a session was allowed for extra terricec, and one dollar a county for. distributing! the acts of Congress, flaking out that the Printer. receives Si 18 for the labor fit himself and journeymen for the'two months and a half in which they are em ploy ed. The gentleman from Hsy wood, sain ne, corapiainea mai ttc were put ting up bu offices to the lowest bidder. But was there an v obieclioD to this'rnode oi letting out me painting oi me oiate House, or the erection .Qthe Tery.ele- gant Steeple upon the'house He be Iteve'd not, then why object to letting out the Printing in theaameTway ? He could aee no' reason why the spirit of Party shouH be excited whenever any petty of ficer was to be appointed When a Go vernori Judge or Senator was to bcelect cd, this might be expected: but when we wanted a man to execute a piece of work for os, we ought- to look 'out for the best workman, and erne who would do the work at the cheapest rate. - Mr. W." concluded by askings mem bers "if they could expect to hold their seats on ih:s floor, if they continued to squander the people's money r-Pbe first question, he said,when a Member returns ; feomc,is,have.you raised our taxes? You i will probably be able to answer iu the ne .gative. But when you make known that you have, paid upwards of, a thousand dollars to your printer for two months and a half work, can you expect your constituents to remain satisfied I Be lore he sat down, Mr. W. said he would sta'e, that he had htard nf com- plaint against the prevent Public Printer nor had he any to make, He believ- ed he had executed, the business in a workmanly and satisfactory manner and provided he will do (he business as cheap as any other person he should hate hisjnost hearty support. Mr. G lis son called for the Yeas and Nays. Agreed. , . Mri Seawell deemed it his duty on this : occasion, vto give tht? reasons upon which be should vote. He professed to belong to no patjty, exctpt to that of ho nest men. He hoped to act, whether in a private or public situation, in such a manner as honesty requires. Why, on this occasion, enquire whether yur Prin ter be called a Federalist or a Republi can ; or.vhether the present proposition was brought forward by Federalists or Republicans ? Every measure proposed ought to be considered as intended for the public good, without enquiring'who brought it forward, or who advocate it ; if the measure be good it ought to be ad vocated, without enquiiy whence it came. The plain question now before the house is, whether we will consult economy or not? The gentle man' from Haywood, for whose opinions Mr. professed great respect, says he is opposed to the resolu tion inioto j that it is derogatory to the Legislature to put up its offices to the lowest bidder. But' there is no feature in this resolution which goes to' set up the printing business to the lowest bidder. 3S horses arc put up to sale by a Consta. ble It professes indeed, to have in-view oeconomyi Suppose it sanctions that kind of conduct which Congress haspur- sued for some years past. Suppose the Secretary of State, were authorized to receive sealed proposals in writing, and to give the business to him who offers to do it on the lowest terms. If the gen tleman find fault whh this course, he ar raigns the conduit of the General Go vernment. 1 his is the manner ot pro ceeding in Congress, and in the General Post-Ofhce. ' Hnw came this practice to prevail, Mr. S. enquired ? Time3 have been, said he, that snug offices havebeen given to friends, when there were other persons would have done the,. business for a much less sum. This being dis covered, the manner of disposing of public business has been changed ; and we owe this change to . Mr. Jefferson, the Father of Republicans, (in which class I rank myself) who calls CEconOmy one of the main pillars of a Republic, and who says that all. unnecessary expences ought o be abolished, '' ! . . - Mr. b. sata he came torwaro. in tne character of a Representative, f not for himself,' but in bt half ot those who ar pointed htm to act for them. Will'you voluntarily. pay 15 or 1600 dollars for your printing, or will yoUvc it to per. sons who will execute it io a less sum i He appealed to ihe members, as indu vrJoals, and enquired how they T7ouId act in sucn a case i.nc sinew 4ney wum accept the lowest price. .:woi,ip act-in the same way, for our ; Constituents, then, would he treason ana contrary to our duty . The, conduct of membera a fewjdays past, said he, aUbrds an exam-r pie woi thy . of. imitation. When this body; first convened,' much noise was heard about ihe'tavern-kecprrs raising jheir boarc? a few cents per day only If members are. so scrupulous .about'. a few cents, I wha TougEt'thejr tL4ce thia case 1 v Hewas not disposed to le gislate -for either ofe, printers i? but for his country. He wiihed to put the business on the same footing as it is Jn Congress. Mri -Jefferson taya we ought intolerance as religious intolerance. If a majority in power pretend to pro scribe a certain set of men, now does this square with another part of Mr.' Jefw ferson's doctrine, which is that though the wJl of the majorityjs in all cases to prevailthat will to-belrigh'tful 'taus he reasohabIe: Now is' it reasonable, or unreasonable that We will confer .a. particular, appointment upon a favorite; when, if fixed upon a proper founda tion, it might be done for a more md?J derate sum ? It is not ; and therefore ho was for giving, the business to the, person who . would - execute it . for the lowest price, and then none would hayei reason to complain. Mr. Love declared himself as much in favor or ; economy tis the: gentleman from Wake, or any other ; but he had also a respect for what was rightaml proper. That gentleman had spoken of the coursepursued by ongress. , ltf tvould be recollected, that Mr. Black' ledger fjad informed the House, at, the-: last session, that-the two contending Printers had, at' theomrnencement tne last uongress,,,,unied and given m but one estimate whiph was 50 per cenl higher han any former one, and as there was but one proposal, the Clerk was un der the necessity of accepting of it. This was what he apprehended' here, if the resolution passed. Mr. Seawell said he had omitted to remark upon an observation which fell from t the gentleman from Haywood, when first up, That the Members were not judges of the value of printing ; that tf they applied to ope, printer, he would state one price, a secondanother, and so on. In this He agreed with the gen tleman ; and for that reason he would not prescribe any price, nor apply to any of the printers, but let them offer their own terms and let the Government take the lowest offer That gentleman has told the-House what a certain Member said at the last session, respecting the printing of Congress.; but, tJie Hquse will not be governed by any declaration of this kind. The . gentleman has been mistaken ; becaitstif this mode of dis posing of the business did not answer. Congress would before now have chan ged it. But the gentleman says, that if the business was let to the lowest bid des, some of the printers might leave the city. No fear need be entertained on this headr since they did "not all sub sist on the bounty : of the public. -Mr. S. asserted that scarcely any til the.LOltors,. or the pressesitherset a type : or read a proov but leave it en tirely to the men and boys whom they employ. He tbertfore roucVaeeMb') a inert nee whether the .vbOsiness was done in one office or .theother. And though M r,' Hodge, Mr. Boy hn or ; Mr. Gales might have, received too much for their services in time pa's, he saw no reason why the Government should con- tini'P in f hf prrof. -.. ' - vi'tn piuuukcu a loiter iruiu. Alexander Lucas and Abraham H. Boy lan (to whom W; Boylan has transfer red the'Minerva and his prinlfrrg busi. ness) proposing" to execute the whole of the public printing, ?nd to distribute the Acts ofAssemhly & Journals and Acts of Congress for S900, which was read at ihe.Clerk'a table. VL .Mr Enai, Jones said. he should, vote in favor of the. resolution of thegentle man from Bladen butperhapsionie aqiendraent migjic. be; ptoppsed which would, make if moro patatable.to other.s. He thought the , gentleman : frprii, Hay- 1 wood had not. beeniairiy;dealCUhv in ocing.reusea.ino priyuege pi reaatng in his place the amendment wbich be j proposed to offer. . He had never.before seen this liberty denied; It "tnlght cer tainly beread for the information btthe) House, v Did the. House know what: was contained io thjerarandmentpfJtbegVhv tleroan frora . Haywood, they could vote more undersUndingly upon the one noiy before. them.;? j VVCv.' vrThe Speaxer cVclared4ne question toibe on the;amenarrient of thegen tie man froth'1 Rowan. il f ijir 7 Mr. Gli5s6n thought the rtesticjo had been onthe Bri ginalTescutton ; ut if theSpeakerfdetermtned tlierwiseh was'S3tlsfiedHe believed na! amend ment ou ght to be f received td a proposi- j uon wnicn v, a suustuute ior me pro position itseli. As the question is na oh the aertdcent of the'gentleman frxrai Uow'anwhen that decided rneot of ;tHfe jgentleman from Hay wobl will be in order ; but It is not in order to J rea d:6rieramementlbebre-a xules of the Hbuseanotidfrto cammit was always in order ;;he would theTrefi)re Veral; amendments ' proposed HJtVat be Committed ito f ajsetect oiTmsjeei the present resolution. rfhe Spe4jcer declared the-motion put pi orde r h Ayf to 1 : I .." whertheFaybeexamiOeaWar'p be more;agreeab!eo!the.Hoi : MrWEB? tboughtthe question, puglit ;? vf to be pn:theorigiba:reiolutte amendment praJmulbensid ed es a $stitute4 z Mrov4 JfqEMid; not agreewitb; the gen'lemaiWrilHaJito? solution o;tbe;genflemtt'nBiade wMpeforetbe-jr from. Rowan ofrererl aii amenmnTi' 'f V which wairreceiyedrih t heVefore. decidefirstuprrtar ment. If this b&Tetecterf-then mirotheiSv amendment i rhSy : beprpposedrf OjK ;"4 m8( question may oe; laKen on inei originat : resolution. . t fi?& The SpEAKE;a.?8aiotbe?do;esi on the adoption of the amendments Mr. Uwi aodkMrbEAWaLXi botai said this could tnot ,be. , u;; ,;; .- The Speaker asked if either appealed irom the decision of Mr; Sea well said he dtdj at no a mendment could be receivV rltntil the Alter some further conversation how- xjt ever, the decision ot the speaker was , et acouiesced in7 -and he atiesiion ohihe) :?y?MH amendment was put and negatived ',iuii to 18, Those w hw votecT in the alfirma-) tive ' were, MessrsiTBellBaruardi . v; ,iV ;urjtf Burton, Ballard. Camp, Gamble, ;H6rn: iiuime,Lamet jones, A. Jones, Jtv, jones, r r ; Mumford, D. Miller. J. S. Nelsbnv RUf, "': Vt! Raihey, Sawy er,Ili; GilliarnA ' Mr.Lov e then moved his amendirient !v y S as lbllows ' 1 Whereas It ; appears from e preiitatibn made to this Legislature, that imntessions have gone abroad amdoglt the peojile of: this State, that the Pubie, Printer receives a. salary foo uign ior ms services i ano wjnereaa U '.S incwiSO.;v as it is the duty of this "General Assembljrto I fsi' pay nc more for aiiy iseryiees that theylteallit i?t? deserve. , But it unfortiVelv haDPens m Jtnial'i't case,ihat the Members of this legislature 'pfxf not themselves" competent ds1f:"ialt?'K. of the business performed .by "tiiso1nceof ia;'j v' t ucucvcu utai iuc uavi; ai naijacc.mta'fts pi. obtaining such impartial, dbinterlstedmpfj tion. pnnhe'sabjeeasvwoaH'''eaayeeaa'W Resolved, jrhit the Treasurer be and he' hereby f?'4'M is authorised.ajpd directtd to collect alod rerrt A ; J a I to the next GeEvra 'ssemblysuih 3jftiorma tion in,relation rr vIu i?f tfri public i printing.of this State, as shall enable that bo- dy satislaetorily to deterrtrtnei whether anyVand if any whai alterations ougtit V-f' -the existing laws on this subject .f: ' V Mr.' Gi;s6NpCi would; not .be agreed . tpInyrjrt' 'i tempt which' had been tTe;tprrect f ; this businesss something; h been produced :;to"creat;deiaViJHwaVf clear fbr, having tbbwih;cssdijppse Mr W. W, : Ion e s ididf notintend lov ve,;rid Jafyjtg but.this was so extTaoWibrmbtio ne couia.not n ei p ssry mg a tew? words. rom whOinf aod;fronihencVisStue worth of labour fa this Statewhere the expence of living' is riot known, or AO apply torsonsho hayeanledjoav business Jbrsjjponlt correct information canJbe got only f roin'. t U'i those ho Kside? herethls: information iy j:- is already received by abetter which, has vt? i been read, and thisis enongh t there i ?l ucccssuy iur puumg on ine;cusineS3 yf5X for another; yeMr? : MfJLasled of memBf ft for throwing away theic money; beca uset we are tojdi we oughtto mation lrohi aistsnceg iji f$f0$0? Jolomati'Qii.?aIready & ixikmHMivn.TMB Pih periuips some mo aim der less did received mordforitiis arc. worm, no one wouui je suiorer thah be tp dinnishlthelpreserit cevHe thoughtlf iolSrmHtpj? iectf itvld awer OnthefcHlo t fv; 0 ' vs.'-. v .4- f. act cf 1804 iaclu2d wiihia
The Weekly Raleigh Register (Raleigh, N.C.)
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Nov. 29, 1810, edition 1
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