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(' I WAf-VJ I 1 4-1 f 1 f --V-AVlr I U- f fil I IL ;-'V 1 1 Mv ' AVfWi I A- I U "II Til v' I U" i, , DEB ATE -ON fTHE CONyENTION auESTiom vHOUSE , OF, COM3HONS:4 The Hoif?e formed itself into a committee of tlie whole; Mr. Briekdl in ihe Chair, on the following Resolutions, submitted t bj MrsFisticrf from Salisbury, on the 1 1th instant : .-r;j z: i 'jiei&xd By the General &9embly'oMrti-CmUn That the repre sentation of ; the people of : this State in both branches of the legislature, under the present Constitution, is greatly unequal, unjust, and anti-republican. o 7?..j Trt ht ronstitntion oueht to be so amended as thateach otkn rf the State shouU have; an equal share, in thevrights ofrepresen-j tauon upon tne principle oi rrec wiuic pupmauwi ""ilw YwmaiUtinn. mcliidinc three-fifths of all other persons.- 3. Therefore, Resolved, That, at the next Election for Members of the As-1 sembiyy me people oixrus ovaic,,wuw : tuuui.u ww w . ' the House of Commons, be invited to vote at the said election, whetheV they are in favor of a Convention, or not by writing oh their , ticket, , Convention,; . or A , Convention; , - .'-" ,'."'':-'JL s ';; nMnA.,:Thxtih Sheriff reach Countv in this State or other re-1 turning fifficeri" be md they are hereby directed, immediately'after th next j vntee mVn fnv or aonunst & (Convention. ' ' and to make out a correct statement thereof, and transmit thesameUo the j Governor, toie laid before the next Assembly.', ' ''Cfy 'Jl'P'i :' 'j Mr. IFishek said, before he entered upon the subject of; ' the Resolutions he must express h is thanks for the t(ery cour-1 , teous manner, wtin wnicn ine riouse ijau uiu.yiiir. u-caicu ms proposition. He could hot forbear contrasting their -conduct on this" occasion with that of another body not far off: and he was proud that the comparison redounds so much torthe aavaniage oi mis xiouse.. wncn-a loquucr, aaiu mr. ii&ca in his place, and submits a respectful projiosition, it is nothing! but justice to give him an opportunity of delivering his rea-;- SOns in IIS iayor ll is cuimiiuii,i;uuricsj w ici, ii i ui uo uioiu. But for the majority to arrest it at" the threshold, and at once put 'it uown, is neiuier jusucc nur uiurwajr.'. f lunjuiuics should remember, that minorities too: have rights. And, Sir, when the; majority of. a "deliberative Assembly, iiv the true spirit of tyranny, prohibits debate, gloomy indeed is the pros pect of an impartial decision at such ja tribunal. In looking in on such a body,"ive are almost tempted to say, as is said of Dantpts Hell, f Hope never enters here. , But, if one branch of the Legislature has shewn us that we , have nothing ' to hope from themwe may rejoice" that prospects are more- promising here that in this House, yve will at least De jle cently heard.? Mr. F. said he regretted the occasion that had called forth these remarks. He would now proceed to the ! subject before the committee, ! ! " V : Sir, whenever a Convention is talked of we : immediately hear the cry of the sacredness t)f the! Constitution that it is the work of bur forefathers, and therefore, it is next to sacri lege, to touch, it. ; This cant istthe chief argument used by many against calling a Convention, and, as there are some well-meaning persons on whom it has influence, Mr. F. said he wouldin the-r5fplac, call the attention of gentlemen to the circumstances unaer which the Constitution was formed, and see if these were the most Yavorable for the accomplish ment of a AVorii of such magnitude, j He would then proceed to point out some of tlc defects of the Constitution requiring I amendment.. ! - I ;;: -,-: ; : When we consider the state of things under which the Con stitution was framed, it.would be a miracle were it otherwise than defective. " The whole continent was full of. confusion ; in our own State more particularly, the difference of opinion jamong. the people ran high. The majority, it. is true, were iq faror6f the new order of things, but there were many that still adhered to the old jand allf from habits, frem educa tion, and early; feelings, wrere strongly attached to the princi ples of the British Government they still thought ttiat the British Constitution and. forms, were the wisest and the best. Sir, if it was necessary to stop by' the way to prove the: exis tence 6f these': feelings, proofs are abundant. The very Con gress that framed the , Constitution Jurnish 'proofs. That oouy, in, me most solemn manner, signea a im in wnicq inese attachments were declared. The Congress that met atHills- borough, only twelve months before, also furnish j proofs:, they Jn like manner signed the test, acknowledging the Brij iisii vuiiiuiuuuii miu ijaws. xierr. i ir. x1. reau Hocraif ex tracts from'tli Jouriials of itheHCongresses of Hillsborough and Halifax, to shew the feelings "that prevailed inthose bo dies, and their Jiigh estimation of the1 forms and laws )f the mother country. , But, continued lie. besides these .feelings, strongly inclining that body to the adoption, in the new! Con- Miiuuon, oi unusn anu i'ioyinciai iornis anu principles, mere were still many other embarrassments that-surrounded thern They were engaged in a workto -them new ;;-i'ieW indeM to the world. - History 'furnished no example where any people ii an niei fogeiucr, unucr iikc circumsiances, w iramc a govern- the case. Judging ; from the Journals; of that body, the for- - alk; It is not tlie peop, mation of a Constitution seems tohave been, but' a minor ob-i ject of their altenUop.t .T proceeded to business In a fe: days a (committee was liaised for the pur pose of draughting and reporting a Bill : of Rights, and the, form of a Constitution. The Congress then resumed its other busihess, ;of which . it iad ' a ..vast ; crowds such as naturally arose out iof the state of rthe tims, and the situation ' of the country. Thus they went on, until the r committee - reported thecform of a Constitution anclt Bill of H ightsi which vere examined, amended, passed at short 'intervals their several readings, and . finally adopted, r Judging from the Journals, the Lwholc time bestowed by the Congress on that subject, could not have equalled more than three or four days, at the most ; and, but of totquiresjpfaper containingjthe Jour nal,;not morejtliari ilthree pagei aretaken upwitii the pro ceedings on the subject of the Constitution After the adop-i tion of the Constitution, the Congress continued in session for some time' devoting its attention to the many interesting and embarrassing Subjects before it such as raising troops, providing the ways and means, hearing memorials,1 and set tling the internal cohditionof the Stated These things,' said 'Mr. F. I.ohlylmentionVto shew the pressing . difficulties: that engaged the attention of the Congress, and thow utterly im possibfe it was for them to bestow that time and deliberation unnn thft fnrmatinn of fhe' Constitiitiori that? its tereat imnor- tance required. Indeed, theexaminatibn of the journals con nected with the consideration of these circumstances must satisfy; every impartial mind, that ( the framers, of the Consti tution only intended it as a tern iiorary work one that the people would examine, alter and amend," when the troubles of war would pass away, and, the sunshine of peace be restored. But grant,' for a moment, that the Congress of Halifax design ed this as a permanent Constitution, men we, must recur to still other; f circumstances to shew, how next to impossible it was for them to form a Constitution that would suit the future condition of the State . . The same feelings that now are call ed Easterii and Western, thenand long before, existed in the Province of North-Carolina; If they existed among the peoH pie, it is reasonable to presume that they were not absent from the Congress of Halifax. Indeed the journals of that body furnish-proofs of. the fact. In the several Congresses before J that of Halifax, the votes w ere always taken by " Counties ! and Tqwns.w f Inthat of Halifax,- a proposition was made to ,' change the mode so as that each individual member should I have one vote.. For this proposition every Western County voted Against it, none-but the smallest counties in the East : voted. ; In the Congress that adopted the Constitution. 36 counties wrere representea ;..ot tnese, only tenwere western : All that wide range of country lying west t of Raleigh, was then divided only into ten counties; That body being thus com posed, suppose that an effort had been made to fix the princi ples of representation on other basis than the present, what wouin nave oecn me resuiif jine same ieeiing mat win in- nuence merooers on mese resolutions wouiu nave put u uown : the vote, in all probability, would have been , 26 against 1 0. These, Sir, said Mr. F. were the circumstances under which our ;Statc Government was 'formed : and "this accounts for the features of aristocracy that appear throughout the Con stitution. , In fact few indeed were the alterations that the Constitution made in the then existing laws andjmiity of tlie Province : even the names Vcre retained The jludicial de partment was but littiatered : and the Legislature-' not much ore, except that instead f the" Utilise o Burge&sesf' the popular" branch is called " the House oj Ctommtm a name ks appropriate for this hranchr;as the House of Lords wouiu' ue.ior me senate, jvne irenerai Jissemoiy was mejterm by which the Legislature was called under the Prdvi uovernmcnt, and it is retained in the Constitution. quali iciat The ment for. themselves. t .ConstitutiohVmaking was, ustyet, but - little known. They were, without the light of exjerience, r .he henef.t of tlie examples of the: other States 5 for,. as yet, hut few of the States had Tomied their Constitutions. :$ Under; circumstances iie these, is at at all surprising that the Con gress at Halifilx'should foinn-a ilns - u the features and forms of the,Bntish institutions ? vlwieed, it was their design and policy to ;d6 soin.iorder that it might oc tnc more acceptable to aulclasses ot thevpeople. - in an address published by'; the Congress of r Hi jlsborough-m the British people, we fift'd the following sentiment.? Whenever 7Cf have departed f ram the forms oj ' the CoiistihiUoj tiiif awn safety . and self -preservation' have dictated the eomeffievftMi -uut there is anotiiQr tact that must : be considered on this part of the sub icct Mr.' F. said ' until withirt, a' short time. he had all along entertained the; opinion, that the Congress of h Halifax had been chosen and convened for the express and sob purpose of forming a Constitution. , .This was far fromibeing - ''''":' ; :l:'- v ' : ' 'V""'.-. i -h j. Mr. F. alluded to the con4ucjt of the Senate ' When iirViilQison introduced Resolutions similarvto those of Mr. P. that body refused to: refer tnem to a committee of the whole House, or even to lay them Vm the table, i hilt ClKm.m - J! 'a' . J . ' . . . ! 1. At' '.. ! ' I w ujspvsiuon 10 rei ccx tnem at once j un xae next oa3't no wever, ' ' '11- J! - , . , -' "' f I i: cation of fifty aci-esf land, and the representation by counties, were taKen trom the laws ot me rrovince. in snort, Sir, the Provincial Jaws andcustoms were the4 materials out of which me Constitution was built,; and the ConstituTipnas but little more than a compilation from these materials. And this is the monument of wisdom that w e are told it is sjacri- lesre to touch ! ; Sir, it is ..'.rierfitr to reverence the work of our forefathers', but its bcins: thcir work does not make it. perfect like ourselves, they; were, erring men nor do I hdld with th maxim ot tne iioiy AUiance' that " whatever s ancient, is good." Eyen'admUting thathe Constit i or me times in wnicii it was maue, sure its. iramers were noi tn)litical prophets to foresee that it could suit equally wel the conditions of future generations; ; . ; - J J The bldCongressr said Mr. JK"that framed the. articles of ifontedcratidn, the f first : American Government, was a body of men never surpassed for warmth of patriotism,, clearness oi intelligence, anu iorce oi sagacity; anu;ye oir, tnese men, with alf tlieir wjsdpmandi foresight,'; -formed avernjnent that in a fewtvears beerah to tumble to nieces: to save! our i ulan t republic f a ncwCdn ventiori I w called and -a inew Constitution as adopte(lfV;How ij it thehhatheages of the old :. Congress foiled in theirl first verfimenti and Ithat the Gmifirrpss 'of . HalifaWr fthould: at ohce Iiave reacheu tlie !oint of: perfection ! It isvnot so ;-ur Constitution is full of ueiecis ; ana i win no w nroceeu' to point oui some 01 mem. . ; ;T6 dwell upon all thdef F; would require more-time, than he could at present command, j tie wouiu. meretoreoniy take up partr ana jeaveia . wild field, for his friends to; occupy. : , 7ci&&5?;teffi v. Of all tlie objectionabiep4ts t our Constitution thfrsffiteni of represeiitatiori' is !the 1 most un iust' and opiiressi veC - IJpbn thisV said he, I shall confines my remarks 'anHifbr Ithe sake p(Jieing better underatp sentation of the people f ty ; for the fheoni of the Constitution seems to bei the repre- scuuuiwi oi mt? ncuiiit? in one uraucu ui. iuc jjcsrisiaiun; tauu of property Jh the6therl !. k . isi. x utfii as m me represcniauon ot me peopie.-. Anu iri the true meaninsr, it is the counties matare; rprnted':i7'tlie). pple were represented riuin-vf be'rs would: form the basi of thesystem;- The counties are; as much; represented Senaieof iheVU Siate$i ; but not ', uponthesame; prihd plesi , or with thesame prbprjie vHThe States ate distinct sovereign-J ties, and it is by compromise that they all have an equal weight j , ; j ; in the Senate of the Federal Legislature ; hot so as regards the j h counties. There is no i a'greater dispan lation bT Rhode Isjandandiw Columbus and Itowan f and yet, in that branch' of the Fele- j: V- ral Legislature ; where I the people ' are represented, llhbde) ' -' is i;iHianu lias uniy iwu iiiewuers,; wnue v jli e w -i orK. nas iweriiy-,r ! CAVPti Knt UtwH i nftniifiht R&nati anil .fnmriinna; ftnliimhna has as manynnfetteras no that! it J ii not;the peo- I ; pie, as a relative plroj'the whole, but the, counties, as a jtind I ; of separate; governments that are representedr' ? The original of this feature in thJe Constitution will be seen, when it is re I membered that counties in the first settlement of tlie nrovince.' were separate'aid distinct governmentswe have altered ! theory,-but 7 retained the practice. This then is a relic froniU r me oia coioniai system ; dui, oir, come.irom wneje it may, it . f.,,: is a system under the operation of which bur State vern- j ; J; ! ment has ceased , to be: a Republic, and: become a complete and V- Perfect aristocracy. What is an aristocracy, but where -X ;'.. few govern the many lis it not essential in r aepublic mat 4; all tie citizens of the same grade ot qualifications should . bavp V ' an equal participatibn; in , the rights and privileges of the goti y' yernment randjthat'a moonfy shall rule ? $SHq govern nenti ) where these princi ptesf are absent, iari: merit tithe name of ajt ; si l- 'it.' ' '"? ' " " '. ' t " . y ' j 'I '.'lino ! :-li a ' " itepuoucan gqvernpieni ; auu, sir, it wni noi ue uMucuitxio . , prove that this is the case under bur Constitutibn.: ; XV) ; show tht itis said lr.jFX ask you tions bottomed on the last Census and'on the revenue Jaws of ;t the State. Ltme here premise that in all calculations mado1 prf population, the frei -J'piwi : oiif is' telieii'-'; fbrj liaf'.is:' the only population entitled to' representetioii urfder the! Con- ! stitution, ; and,v whenntlemenrebntending sume data riot recognised by it. iSIaves ; Legislature, either as population or as property. ; and -jvhero ; calculations are made to shew th operation of the system we ; mustj confine ourselves to the prbyfsibrisof thatsteW;tMrI ? F. said he made tliese remhrlffl, because some gentlemen . may. wish to assume te federal numbers as the data of calculations f -an assumption which ; he.'cbiild fribi admit. 'tiiSj: ' I Fti.t; T unequal extent and population, yet each send ihg to the; Le- ; ' erislatu're the same number of membersTmakirig in all r193, ;; lnqiuuing me oorougn represeniaiion.,;rKi ne iree popuiaium oC the State is 433,9 12 souls, whichi divided by the niiniber of members in the Legislature," gi ves ; to each f member, 224ft sou is : or, in ouier -.wyitis, every vxaiosouis-.upoii; pnnci T)le8 of equality, would be: nitied Take this then as the ratio of one membetv aiirt hb w iyill the J result appear ? Why jhTlie counties GreerieV" Chowan, C entitled to one inembe1 r, w hile, . upon the jsanie 'balculation. Rowan would ojbtain 9, and pran Tmembe the free population ofjGjrc.he thatshall send 3 members J X, 0 an will send 27 Orange .22, and the bther large counties in ;due 9 proportion j TILfo thes Marti n, ' Lenoir, Hyde Gates and Carteretmakihg twel ve i 1 counties Tteeitwelveburitie 3B,03r souls wile i lwwanf and Orarige contain lfiairJ-tefJ;-y ly thesamembbnt Kbui these bers and Ri) wan and Orange only 6, exclusive of the borough ' i : ; ' ' representation i Ft'ew III ; We have seen that twelve small bounties; w jf-'' . tain 38,037 souls cpntrast this with? V laigeh contiesVSvja'llRbwan', i v iviecKienourg, 9toKes, tvumerioru, ourtie, ireueii, uanuoipn,v Surry arid.WfkithapojmIa souls in certain small cou n ties, send as niany. members to me Legislature as I J26j'qnlsc large couotieshe twelve ;"689j" f souls more tlmrt the twelve f rli l ' rsf cCKdan:-jBruini Hyde, Gates, Carteret; Ashe; Beaufoit, Bladen, Bertie; Cam-; y iy den, Cumtack, Franklin, Hertford, Haywood, Moore Northr i y' . i amppnasn ;ewuanovei;nsiowTj asquotanK,r r , Perquimbris,t Warren;WaYne, : PcVsbn and ' ; Richhiomlil in :; U ife h' 144 number 33, contain j95soulsust abbqfAmf ofme ; free population of the State ; yet they 'send 99 members which ' f f is a majority of the1 whole Legislature J Xloes r.lt riot J plainly ; aniiear, ironi iiusicw ,oi me suu ei t, uiat onerinira oi ine po- thirds ; t Js: ti is but aristocracy ;; ingthe my t bnethl the laws-appointiiig all mc bffirera,Jjudicia ;;V' riailifary -Aiib tjtlie eleven large coun ties (oinitting :Vaki") ; ' S fi-' enunierated iri freepblation of tfc!StateVviz. 144,04 i iovAifj iat these; are J jv .;5V,; entitled only tb 3nemere, Jp airibtintbfpqpulatipriina ;Slsmi8,?'iid. vffig.i toltheJcitiz equal participation in thb ihte and pfivlleges jtives ! Siricewe hybrribt AnaJVblceIinrm ; ; and apnointmc: the .oflacers for ;-their. execution- pci bans, 'Ity ; ; V We are exSnted frbrii 1 bearirijr'anwiu!'" ;;: - if- l . . 4-1. n Ik., ilntin of V." .5 W -..m -i nrnr m.nvr imih Tiil .':-f: '' Vway of atonement, lere- share of the I j be it said, that in practice, the people are not represented atjj v 5 tazead,time.of.darif,eXufn our full;;, .
The Weekly Raleigh Register (Raleigh, N.C.)
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Jan. 18, 1822, edition 1
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