r J I . ,. . - . . v.;-,:r; ' v'',i'-' .'' "V:-;; - ,' '.., UnwarpM by pwtvxage, to Unlike JWeil" jvb ,rs. -M"
..v . i debateJ on the
CONTENTION; QUESTIONS
- " " . .... , t , ' , '( -
CONTINUED. , 'E.'
. HOUSE OF. COJIMONS. ; .
M. Strange observed, that he hoped the committee wa-ild
-not be alarmed : he would occupy their atfention but a. few
inipute iHeJiad intended to have taken no part in the dew
bafe,T as he believed that every niember came to' that bouslp
-with a determination to' vote as his individual interest led
; him 2 he would therefore as soon expect , to - move the State,
fnim its foundations bykthe explosion of. a pop-gun, as by ar-
- i . .. - a I J l !J 1
, ( ument to change the vote of a single individual on the com
mittee y tov interest presents a shield as impregnable to ar
gument; as tfiat of . tbe mighty: Qreek to the weapons of his
! :n Mry S. thought the true question before the committee had
iiot'teen fairly.stated apd. met" Enquiries Dave- been made
i :whether any grievances have been experienced uriderjtlie pl'e-
aent system. It appeared to him, fthat it wotild be the pririci-
f pal objects, and perhaps the only ones, 01 tne proposeq Aon
" vention, to .enquire into, tjie grievances occasioned by the de-
-From remarks which had - fallenfrom? eentlenieh 'in tlic
course of this debate, itemed.to be doubted wliether $p had
a right to ipterfere withl He presiimed ho
member of the committee mearit Seriously to assert'such
doctrine , All powersai .Mft8 Jbelongsrtp Jhe people, rid
they hatea right to meet and consult; foi the- public good,
and to amend' their charte qiP( government as they please.
This is a right secured by ;the Law of -Nations. To jprdi;
which. Mr. S. read an extract frbmTattcfcv
t It is, said Mr SMv jWell established principle, that the eo
11 V
; pie nave, a rigm 10 auur uicir vAJiiMiiiuiion at pleasure. dui
j although getltl6m'enacknpwldge that we possess this right,
they, are not for affording uV any 'remedy. ey.asklvhat
business the te
ntion, to:enquire into, trie grievances, occasionea ny ine ae-: ntieman ivU; i
fects in our present Constitution, and to recommend measures ; whv It huld he ineThwli
suipie ipr xneir reineujr. x uLu j .Vf it'would convulse the people to threw info tlieir hands that
fF" Preroa.lure ... ':! i power which is their own. ;Jt would convulse the Stated and
jeopardize me oesi .lnirresis i tne country. - w ncre uoes me
prehension r , Is there any
ffislature has to meddle with it? v And thev
deny that the people have any right to act upon! it. bo that
we hay ii right, out-Vio remedy". This, J said Mr; S. cannot
be 8, And tbOugli the Legislature cahnqt 'compel the people
to hold a Convention they may point out the mode iri vhidr
' it-,can.bejd6'new .f:';-"; v ' ;:S-;:; -
I But wavinff tliat point of the subject, it is said to be inex-
rpeuicni to ran a Acmvenuon pmviueu we iiave me power ;
and lie would endeavour, to fQllow the cqqrse. of remark which
had been made on that subject. U , k , !;i H v
vi tve genueman irotnnuiax gave ine toiiowmg reasons
still exist : but he did hot see what this had to do with the
bjcThe;Cstit
sachdsetts and Maine J had fieBnformeprln
ihingjs ' alluded to, and :we, nave Acara oi f no uisorucic auenu
&tlUie (phventi Nor ;
have an of them adopts
culiar situation of the country Tie ConstitntToW: bf the - U.
prouioiis any. , mine tirora eins .mauu u-nucrT in jyaj uipn u
lent to call a Convention. He said
ruy uvw trvui uuns u, , gelltieman fin(j
.yv"-1??- " l "V, , , IV ' J i thing so factious
t)I a lonvenuon, suouiu up lunicu iwrac intu mo uu auur . (jn0,
trackless desart
savage and lawless
lowed.
lately
Gentlemen have said much, of the evils that must necessa
grounds ion his apprehension r , is there any
in the people ol IN orth-Carolina moie Uian
rw ma. i i ti 1 i r . nt niiirnira nnAti o
oi pounai expenmeni ; ;u . suou.u tilat this State is the SouthefH Sttte of steady l.abits
ess, as man is found to be where the bonds j 0ljt of twt.ntyif(,uc Sta1vtwcnty he helieved Hid
necticui (me iana oi steauy
ie factious State of Georgia
jas submitted tiie question
nmally iserveito guide ussafely into a haven jatleast . - f W1 ;' 'AU h'A u wni;M.fr W
t.as commodious as that in which we are now moored, .lie 7 rAsi ti,v arr Wa -tL.-fitnta nf NpYm mn.
various i , ,, i,: .iA cn lrnM.
out goiu ana silver coin ne oiaia tunuuw uisreuut: emit ?
the embarrassment of ; tHeimes;wftU
tw-W slmH shew you
ion, that your netjy Bank
any other Hvild i scheme 7 w
Legislature 5 and if .if ortlus
kind, how can it belexted that albnvention Jwld. act '
casauct of eloquence" has been torn open and its;
' jewels scattered abroad, to dazzle and allure us from the true
. question, by r xcitini our alarm, and enlisting our feelings;
He would venture to assert,. that whenever a Convention is
j vention ? No such thing.n The delegates met at Albany, and
jproceeded to business in a jnanner. becoming the Reprsenta
tives of a wise, Republican State. Nor has any thingjike
: faction apteared in any of the other States on like occasions.
,!calied, no'thing like the rage and turbtijence of passion will be
i secnin i y jioi a oiasi in puj er u io ruuic u,c uc, .uui saia Mr;t S. yoil agrce to submit .the question to the peo-
. .. i 1 1 1 1 f i !'- Ul WJ UIUWUkFVUJ ,M IIIIIIUIllT UV til ,IU"I 'Wb I1IV II1VU
sure, the question will be, what is to be done r Thcjpeople
abovethe Snffuence ef secthmal interest and individual feelincr.i'
mm "t m' f m m . ill ' . ' 1 . Il
- Ru gentlemen say e
of 45 !Wars, and fbeil4.foreVSu ah
argument; of this kind: lought to havej;ahy .inreigjrt Jt ."might
hk ve been u sed with juch greater f eree j agai nsi; amend i ng
the Constitution or Charted of Connecticut whicri.had exist
ed since the days of IKing Chariest But such' argurtients
nnii no wkijiii . witi-tj . hiiii tut" v ; hit: i.ii.iru uv iiiiiin lici t- .
nothing to l-ecommend it but the rUst of antiquity, that ought
not to protect it. If you ari nof 'able to ewv that It is per
tn Stf its parts, or superifo
tlie present age can form, th pelee plipdr
tunity of amending it wben theexpis ,avi?h Id tloQii.- ;1
Miv Jefferson had been feirecl asfaiiUibritf (orijtho
svstcm of Renreseritation adohted in Virginia Tbuftj tijdt
L that a portion of th6 people in that Statfi ire disffenchisetl ;
. tlat no man'who is not possessed of a freehold can vdte fok a'
iieipfraie to ineir nouse oi rurDi-eseiiianvcs. ai. o. uiu ho
objected to this stem. '-'-He carcdhqt; ypioy:infa6nof
it. ' He; ; respected,'MrJ I Jefferio'ir ' as !l mut'u -lis :.'inyl fca'fl J6ut;
he would not call sucn a system ot governmenf a liemqcratic.
Republic ; but, in the language of an;Arp
public, ; Mr. S. read a passage front Vattci in support wof his
jopinibh.V . :. ' SW
What; nskpil Mr. S. constitutes the strength of me' State ? '
There are two kinds of strength hdmlb raoT me Dthcr
: imysicaj; x ne moral, is me goon- opinion wniun mopeupiu
Temedy the evil4f he believes in its existence, no matter how
. 'it may operate on himself individually ; it is of no consequence
,'to him whether he inhabit a large county or a small one.
Gentlemen say that large counties have, no cause .of com-
"plaifit on this gi-ound because they have small counties near
thera. As well might you say to the por man, under an
Aristocratic form bf government, who complains that he is not
' represented, " Sir, 'you have1 no right to Complain, you have
rich neighbors "near you, who are represented, and who will,
consequently, take care of your interests.,, I. Would such an
.'answer be viewed by tiim as conscilation suited- to his ' case ?
YquId he not View it as the taunt ef scorn As the mockery
of kis grievance ?; T And so should this argument be. viewed by
the i inhabitants oj large counties. k .
. To Mm, this question appeared simple and. unanswerable.
Gentlemen bpposed to a Convention have no right to open
their mouths upon the subject ; they have no right jto say, we
shall have iho Convention. In their open oj)position to thU
incasurcji.they say4o tlie supporters' of , the jpreseni proposi
tion : Although your fathers have fought and bled to secure
your liberty and independence.; - although for this your s;nl
has drank their blodd, and mcir bone have l! w hiter ed on its
bosom, you shall not enjoy die blessings secured to you by
. 'their valor. Although we acknowledge you are not equally
represented we will stand seli-created eruardians tliereof, be-;
tween you and the Constitution : althodirli it is the 'charter of
jrour own uocrucs, purcuaseu uy mc pioou ot your own an
fcestorsi altiibugh wei acknowledge it to be your own exclusive
propcrtyvyct we will take it upon ourselves to form a phalanx
around it, and bid you defiance; you shall not, unhallowed as
jtiu ai-r, ouiru'ie yourselves inio ius presence, or ioucu u wim
.your .'polluted hauds.'? From whence.do tliese gentlemen ; de
Hve such high powers ? They have them not ; they have no
right to say to the free people of this1 State, you shall not
have a Convention; If, when the vote 'comes t6 lib taken on
the subject; they think it inexpedient to hold a Convention,
they can put in a ticket to that cct But it is bur l-ighty
(said Mr. S.) to have a Coitventiohj j 1 '
It is painful to look around upon this ' respectable assem-blage-the
Legislative Council of the' freest people ; onhe
globe, and reflect that all who have spoken, and all who will
Vote on this important question, have sppkeur and will vote
under the Sole influence of what they believe to be j their sec-
nlim.f fhft fitMiIft whirh haI taken" Mac ih-Connecticut oft-
The qrfestro'n before the committee has improperly becn :Lwin hfttnlfi f,t tio rvntinn hAnchlA.! wilf hiiAr andSiafel:U was a hanoV
uo aui,. ul" , , 5 power to abolish such of our Constitutional provisions as struggle, tie differed entirely m opihioa from .the.gentie-
Western, counties of -e-State j whereas itsbould be; and ;ffheyitn!nk proper and to make new ones, and they Uxll ap-h man frbmeWbern on this subject, It 4 said.Mr,:S a
J ; V. . -Vi . h point or uas purpose, ine uest quaiihed uitizens
smaller counties.. There are Jsmall trountiesin the West, as Qf!1A A I , I
.eu as in imi jasi, uu ua uu. pun Va puvrcr a uio t.he election of Members. to the General Assembly,
larger counues. ; inis is unjust; anu it is me ouryoi every citizens h;G ;cai, believing tlmt any an of good inten.
none man, uvnroi jumilc, iu u it.u,, r w and d common sense, wUl answer the' purpose;!
iiuui wucii .a nuw vyiiiisiiiuiiQii , is io ue luriueu, jou win see
M A J M. A. ..tm AW a . . a u A - I- nm. - ' et . ' TmW K h4 Al
in me struggle net ween me otaie an! uie uurmi) unu:'iie hwukcu
v- God Uiat the State had pre vailedThat tfiey ; had thrbwrt oft
. the r the yoke of the Clergy; and established a freetGoyernmenn
great-c-; met to torm a national . iioyernmeni, it pecame necessary . w
a mo- -mafee; a compromise with the small States bf Modb Island
me a-; i and Delaware, and they were accordingly aUOWedthe same
h
I The entlemah from Halifax next makes a comparison be- I
twetil me snuauon, oi? uur smaii , v"ii ; aim uiu Ktuaii
Statesa comparison that is altogether 5 i nartplicablb. f" A
pvp!-v,man renair tii tlitt iull. and flip hpjst and fitfp'ct mpn m JvState is a sovereign, indissoluble bodv Politic' ' A UOUntV.
the community will bechosen. No man in the State Will, be j yon 'thet contrai,'. has no;pdwer bui hai : is derittilZfiyro tb
exempt from serving, in a Convention : even your Governor, H sovereign authority of the State; . As a State, ,D el a ware is
or your juutres, or iiinisiers oi me trospei, miciit oe eiecteu ; equany sovereign wnu iicwiw uc mo uuiiccu omico
to that bouy. xou may thereiore onng together the
est talents in the State. KAnd.can it be supposed, . for
ment that such a body would be factious, or adopt any
sure which would not be for the welfare and happiness of the
State? ' ' . - :-. ',.,V; jV , - '.f ; , :
. But gentlemen hare said, that under the present state of
hings, nothing like oppression; takes place. Mr. S. almitted
hat we at present enjoy liberty and a good degree of hap
piness ; , and that the Constitution under which we live is
agbodone, considering the time when it was made. - But
since its formation, timds- and circumstances have changed. .
Gentlemeii call loudly on the friends of the Hesolut ons, to
shew any instance in. which the people are deprived af their
rights, and what necessity there is for calling a Con rention.r
Mr. S. said he would examine this subject. W! allege
that our Representation" is unequal, and we name tw Coun
ties to prove it. Row;an and Columbus. The citizens of Co
lumbus have six times the ipbrtionof , Rettfesentation in the
general Assembly that; the .citizens bf Rowan have. What
are the rights of a citizen ? His first rights are his natural
rights, to lifei liberty, and 'the, possession ofhappinessV But
when he enters into the ;Social compact, he surrenders some'
of ; his t natural lights for 4he sakeJof enjoying his political
rights. Ail men are born equal,? and every man similarly
situated is entitled to equal riarhts and equal privileges.. This
being a fact, "we have a right to complain that the citizens bf
the large counties do not possess ? equaii politicArightsVwitli
uie cuifus ui fiinaii counties. Anu u lie uiusiapcaiw .y xnsi
ern and Western (though ;be disliked the distihetmn) bur
people believe that they do not possess tlieir full sharp of Re
presentatioii in theLegfslatui;
make laws for us, and tax us without biir consent j and they
make bur Governors; Judges ahd other Officers. The Bast
has the majority, and consequently the poweri and though they
may not use it impnqwrly, tliey may do so if it pleases them.
This4 we calla brievance. To deny to freemen 4n equal
voice in auaKing.. laws, - laying, taxes, 'C ist Aiiii--eijujiuaii
and Aristocratic fit inav be called Republicanism : j but it is
j:. i l . "a. i . . j i ,
uuuai. auu lnuiviuuai iiueresr,-wimout auverung a moment, ' n v' 7s . cMv vi-i
to the abstract question ot risl,t If ,e question wero put risSn.cP"'?m'Ju ":M&t$Z
to every man in this commits, separately individually and
gn. n... wi n..M..:i, I ' . ' .j;:t.i ..L it is necessary ,tq have a freehold to entitle a; mart to 4 mte.
affirmativelv i but men: e-entlemen. iinr on tl,i flbn in if
hV--fi-St ; ir "'ii shew.you somethine: ilike.eppression. What, feskeel JUr.
mrm -rvmAw iiM utl1 K wW W B M m M m a Arm. m m mm w 11 m m mm. a m
tional and individual interest ; theyxan Withere shaUb
.ConvenUonVano; right and justice h lostjn the flood,
Mr. J. S. Smxif observed, that "tlie propbsiiioh b)re the coun, iiasift ycr- H
Ommitteo was important, as; it proposed to submit tothetitU C vZha
2ens of U State the propriety Fbricallbg a Cottbu to' .
mend their Constitution. - -i ff ---t ff ' 1 "tiemuu from Halifax
Representation in the Senate w'ith the other States. , But has
the littleVcounty of Columbus; any sovereignty ? Certainly
noil Why, then is it entitled to; more? ttfepresentativs ia
proportion to, its size, -than: otheruc
' : '! The gentleman next alleges ;ihAt jhewpiild' he great dif.
ficulty in a-Convention about theprbper ; basis of Itepresen
tation. ? He (Mri S) had no doubt there would" become difr
( ference of opuilon'on this su
; 'some discussioni Would come "to' aii undeitai:dirig bn the sub-
Iject. Hldid ilot believe me citizens of tlie West had any iiH
will toWaYds their brethren bf "the'East Hb 'was certain:
( that he himself had none and if a Convention ' were to be
neia, me oasis oi Jtvepreseniaiion wouiu yc uicu on wio- n tn
I ciple of population, on the' federal principle, or on population
ailU . laAailUII UMUUHICU jli ua, oaiu ugiwiu numvi ) cut.
an opportunity will be afforded of conciliation and compro
mise. But while the two sections &tbod aloof from eacli
, otheh nothing ceuld:be"effbcbd;
i Thje genfleairfrbm3SWte
of these Resolutions cbi.jn
sehtatiorn, ami dfd -iibitint'put the defects in tneCbnstitu
tibii; Mr. S." saidV that vis the principle defectf 'and was
cbpsdered a grievance which cTdnbt bb?dcjti v '
Butithe'saine- is irot a proper time for
amendirig ieCqnstitutipr5( t
embarrassed in a pecuiiiaify point ojview nd lerefbre unlit
to oe entrusiea witn tne pow;er 01 amenumg meryoniiimin
C Mr. S. said, it as' tree tto
gentleman , spoke of had exited aou: pertiaps
entertain of tlie goodness bf its, form ; the physical, is thjoi
force and. ability which it possesses to meet an' eriemyv ' Sup
nose vcur Republic is .invadedrliryourcidzetui-
called upon to defend it, whether they have land or jtvryX
if atnan be obliged to fight for, his-ceqntry; he surely oogb
to.:eiijoy 4he iigbts,0jf a,ci'tizen. f''":".ftv-r
f The next ercntleman wh'o addressed tlie -committee on thUi
subject was frbin Beulor
man1 acwiowieagea mat- me esiern, peppw ere n t , yw
tlv ireseutedil iTliia waa
ana notfiirtg more than lie expectea irom htne canugurw
geritlcjiiiu ?v But be iemflieJes detoanti
putidematidsfStbslie
V
i, .
tleriatfgoesn r
equal thtf West in popuMtiorf, tlie to wns of , Nert 6ifii,f ATihr v
i, .
- .
'''