U'
9 .
:.nh ahsskk Mk$.
. . JT ' J " ' i- -r i- i t " i - ' ' r . a--a- . m i
STATE: COIXTEWXIOj.
k 'Mn'i Atonddu, Junt 8.
: - -.m,'' .-J T?Aliiti.-n- was this moraine:
.4 pid ,tUh pray trjipltf Bv. Dr. ttcPhertwt,
of the 3?trt?oiciivch.'. ; ,
-'-"Ttk-favi--itHMl'eM apreared,
- - wrqS(hini ftookilhcir- set..fr. 8kihner,
'U Clwwao, Mr. Holm, of ;;New-Hanover, Mr.
eawVttoflCEwrtnioa tk'CftNiis, ofrWasb-
-'.'. Mir. jj I8rti N ,from ;the. CoTOroittw ap
poiutej io krni Mea foY thV; government of
- s fcortlbfilW'i-ftft.wM adopted ;f-
feita few remand cueHy on an amendment proposcu
toltf mit eeftainiiHc&oittto; of the
? Cbuirh, wnich jwa fleeted, GaJlenes are
ppropriated to j'thefailwpf persons who desire io
hoar tbe'proceeiVuijf of thf Contention.
? Ontf of tW role Spoiled 'for feiment of
this body, provides that the yea n& neyt rfiall b
UiLeaon the caUJofne-fiilh of the membera pre-
afcotj i. ' -; 'v, V
vMriwoifoteJ to amend ttxis provWon. so
nt tfiyeaa and nay should be' taken on the call
of ny indiviJual member : but after a fev remark
4 ftnt member of the coinmiuce, atatinff that the
rait aa reported J wa in conformity -with Ihepntc
, .5 i n I 'l -t
eVoAN'lt:thft(mtoAtion meet eeiry 4y a
IP o'clock, A: M.i tmleaa otherwise ordered1
'.. The Question thereon waJeciied -in the afRrrfe
live; without aehateH Dri.1 Smith .haia ieaawea
hie moiin, the Hooaeiidjouraed. - -
After Prayer by the Rev. Mr. Jamieson, of thrMe
thodirt Charch, 't : ;
Mr, Jacocht moved that the Renolntion laid on Ae
table, a day ortwo thmn in relation to procuring
certain tatiirticaf5nfonnation be taken up for eont
deration : which 'wm aercfed to.' The Resolution
bavin; been read, Mr. j. iid,f that the object of it
was in a ereat measure superseded by the adoption
of one of BimiUrmport offered WMr. G7e- Thera
was however a Urixle mint "fmbrnced in hit RmoIu-
tion.'on tvhich he Still desiraJ information, for the
barpose of obtaining ' Which, he vr oulJ modify it by
ptrikinff out thex whole after ! the word Resolved
and inseitin? ' That aaij 'Committee report the
number of votc taken in each county in the State
upon the Con ventibri Question, on the first and ae-
eohd days of April last?'
The ProsidVht havinsr stated the ouestioni
Mr. nyiiio&i. remarked, thai? if he "could per
ceive any rndalrestiltTvhich8'could now from the
proposed Vnquiry he jwould cheerfully vote for it. h Convention vote. ' In'1324, the a??rcgate
- - f
I - I1 . , ! I ' 1 .1 '-. J, - v . --
enlizhlen-.the: popKA hoped Ito pee the digioal
propationrf diVncumberedfof the acerJ inend
Iba Printcr'a hawdj andonkl
soon be Wore ua. ' ; He .moved therefore to .iiodify
the Jieaolutkm oasj to proviae for the uppoircmeni
bfitelect Committee, ta prepare the table 4pred,
instead of imposing, the labor'on the original I ;oro
mitf-e. 4He moved thiu-.jdifieation to mee the
vieWofthe ertilemea from Perquimons and J urke
tWilswi vJ Gaimer) thongh he believed 4 im
practicable io obtain the information akeJ for t and
if obtained, iat ii would be totally irrelevant td any
matter at iue. ;Themneverad been any resular
returns of the vote at. the Ausywtppleetion of 1 133.,
the statement published having ben informalr' far.
nished by Membera of Assembiy. s It would be inV
poasible to ascertain the nomber of while voters fur
the simple reason that one half the Clerks dvt iot,
in their return io tbf Compftoller'a-office, di tin
guiah s Iwtween the; black atidj white polls ; ai 1 if
they Hid, votere olver 45 werenpt attbject to taxa oil,
and therefore not! included. . j Jt
Gentlemen hadTpoken of the thinwrote in J prll
last Thev miirhr be aatonnhed to learn that, - itb
- ; i- -v;ir If w.a larerest eeneral Vote
in k Rtota Aft anr Occasion, inn
cpntiorf "was the Presidential vote off 1 628.
lice-of Concress. and. of most of he other,' Iegw j desmnj the information
vote of 1824 for President
' W1hhUm inifUiunn: that it would? prevent
aJiiriTiduainember from untieresaarily protraet
IUnjj the publie biisinesa vand that no instance ever
occurred of a retusal to take tne yeaa anu nj,
fhen called for on any important :aubjactthe mo-.
YeitwitntHew bU motioiu k-;& T-
Oft mUon SCO "copies of thrRidea trero ordered
tohe printed." ; ! '- '
itide OaaTOX, from he Committe appomtcd to
J fnmder and 'jpafc the .manner in .m hich U
-be expedient to take up the buMneaa qf the Conyen
.. tiori,aaaea Repori, (See next ige "( p .;
Afitfrreadin? the Reporter. Q aaid, if U
'"iina nw In dtr,:tj would proceed very briefly, to
' ahi.:w what frkna miotbt in'oL after the Report
' has been read, be thought neeaairj. the view that
i . tbeCokmltte took on thw aubject,
The tmTnie,ih aaiJ, couaerad cmaelvca
as charged wh p other duties than to report to the
ConvenUona'conveirient andrregular mcthodof
treating th several , malOsrs aubmitted by the Act
ttf eoBAleriHg this sulijcct, the Committee made
mani&at dittinction Wtweenrhat the ?ejptc, la
apptovio?; add aacttoning the Act of Assembly,
' havidetennirfihall Iw donc by the ConvenUoii,
and what they have left to their discretion.
'With respect i "if. the first elaes of duties, the
(he dofltiimtrje thought H proper to pr&po the ap
pointment of tWc jdistinct cmmit:'cv co-
: :: ! r Tt-I : " f.am Mftl: Prvil.
I (rjrefi.nal ?Diatriet to prepare plana for 'carrying
Uiem into clTeca. .1 . '
' Withrregard i to the discretionary subjects, the
Committee begged to be understood, that they have
' ad other object in '.vicW,- but to bring the several
Tjattera contained in the act befe e; Convention
. )n sue.a formaa that the sense of (hat body may
be-distinctly takca ; upon them, "without any jecom-
' ' mendation for their adoption.
::Tbi tmmineel'' m framed a Resolution ug
srgeigheappinl Commit tee upon eve
ry amdtnent theCrtijtitution mentioned in the
. JAttv : f Aiaemb and leave it,' tothe Coaven
' tio&td determincf the Vrrbpricty of appointing such
ComttAtee:Ifthey should determine that it ia
unnccer they can da
eline apporihg theemmltteai , v
vThinin-wli0e:Co act op-
n eichlleewluucnia be, for their wisdom to do-termme.'-,
'' y" ' . ' . .
,i. The Coriventlbri -can. at orie declare its vnwill-j
" ingness toac yfkniahy subject they may refer
lae matter- wr' vommuice, w""1
U(n aia Tepon, reject u a incicui
rwjoch induced them !t five -if:fe of lle ip-
.--
f wreeirt.t!bn. Pertain. little eons 4er'!3 1 WHt. it ViwlJ be expeetal lh.t he thU ff
of renrfnttlnn. Perhan
mayenble W dine over the:most obvifu ot j
the realms. The jjreatpur,po$s f all Qv-J
cruiucriis is in prruoic kHE unj.i.iicn3 ,4.-
the safety of U5 cinasens, ' Power must be con
ferred which Is adechiafe to These) mrwe but
c ire ahould be takvn to pUcetit Jn tnr.bands of 4
those who are not likely 'tOj abuse it: t0 tiie pnr.
ppeiof wrng anttioppressjon Were there
nre fiortioha if the comraumty, t who in addition
to tlie interest !t fiey feel in their eoqniry's ffoud,
haveicertairi int-rest,of tleir ewn -whose c-
of a
kin.t distinenfrom thow of their fellow-citiens ) pnWiearr System. : Before
'ffew;rali)wanlsthe)fe;- portions are fehtively 1 General Cioytniment, T
weak in comparison witlt the rest of the S'rate
thne is always rMl danger lest their rights
should be ovtt looked or invaded. It is esscnti
al that there should be secured to them some j
:"hkjfS1iSaith saldr as lie hatLaubmftted the.
when we so ardently deiee-'to build tm mm
lm ercial citJea within out Jwders . what Wj u.
thougnt of theplan to disirancbiiie ail the town
In the State h Sorely, the intelligence win not
oti mi pleasantly in. thtf ears of their tahabiumg ,
Sdrely sach a plan does not exhibh very cheer,
tnpf;tirtdence of determination tt5 encou14,
commerce or to- fjiye aecurity and actirtty 9
mercantilttofepTievoT. may i,,
prtvernd-dyaTcetieStatei . ., r
?f of4l eriu afesfcnr from contested Town fje.
nm wiiAM ia its sunnnrfi 1 Lie 'had lonrcon
sidered the subject oj Uorolgh, Representation,
and haftcomertotheinclawow thatnt-ongntto
..AbprtsHerJ; irad.reside4rla one ftvesf
'tlorbttgbii for near.jrfotty fears fwfiA he aafrweji
aeqinted with thofeyil wlsVngfro
ndileti4Wcff,,,t,l? to.
to Bvreugh ? town! aserivfjtorn llnfflaW?
where it Was introdacel for tho encouragement
of traded uchesxabliintentai rhvKh an
swered the purpose of the Ilritnh MJtiarcblcal
Government, but they are not suited to btiP Ite
the rstenje of the
own Keprefematire
mkrht have been useful for- the eneourjrement
of Commerce but hyi the Consjilution of the
United Stales all matters tf commerce are trans"
ferred to the P..lrrl finvrrftmpnt..? an tint
friend who will aeetrfbeir grievance, shall WTl h" atooS
1.1 k,atlliailn I . Vl D r 1 ini ' ' .l - . ' w . ...... I ,
thing bnt the Inspection laws tint was necetu
Mr; Jneochi renlied. that he wanted. thev informa
tion foY his 'constitnents. He did. not know that it
would aid the Convention in vamvire; nf any parti
cular conclusion, outfit would be satisfactory to the
public. .. . ' h &
Mr. Jfifron, of Pcrquiraons, rose to move an aj
mendrhcnL It waa certsinly very desirable, before
our; old Constitution was upturned, and its structure
utterly demolished,! that every fact bavins a bearing
on the subject should be madeVpnblic The people
have a right to this information ; they-ought to know
their real strength and what potion of them it is
who desire so gTeat a change Jin our fundamental
law. If tbi injformation iroea orth under the sanc
tion of this Convcntibrt!twill be received by the
people as having the aiamo of authority uiwn it. He
therefore moired to amend the Resolution by adding
as follow : i 'l
And ibat said Committee also enquire and re
port the nnmbrr of free white voters in each county.
If he remembered correctlv. 'the Census of 180
showed the; nlimber of vfcte males, entitled to vote,
to b lietween 80 and 85,000MWhile the recent vote
on the Convention Question exhibited enly 27,000
votes in favor of the measnro And no doubt the vo
ters had greatly increased in the time intervening
between the last Census and the late vote, judging
by the rate of increase since 1790. which he estima
ted at 30 percent, up to 1830 and 15 per cent fince.
It is important tha the people should know these
and similar facts, so that they may act understand
ing when the Constitution is presented to them
for ratification. Ho, hoped the amendment would
prevail
Mr ' Wellborn said, it was tfmvthc late vote was
a comparatively small, one ; but did not experience
show that the penple would not turn out to vote un
less under the influence of some strong motive.
The majority obtained was a Constitutional one, and
that was sufficient. Al respects informing the peo
ple; they already know all that it was propesed to
communicate to them by the desired publication.
Mr. Gilet. bemir one of the Committee to whom
the subject was proposed to ba referred, was opposed
tor the adoption of the amendment, simply on the
ground of the im practicability of obtain rtj the infor
mation called for . Perfectly willing to undergo any
labor which might devolve upon the Committee, he
was convinced there was no sour: 3 whence it tvould
be possible to obtain the number of free white voters
in each county in the State. ill'
Mr. JConper hoped the amendment would prevail.
It was a suffi :ient 1 reason for its adoption that the
.people wanted light on the subject embraced in it
. Judge Gotten begged leave to make one remark
oh jthe proposed amendment. He was sorry to see the
amendment resisted, because gentlemen could not
discover the benefit which might result from it He
thought it a sufficient reason for its adoption, that
respectable gentlemen, stated the information was
wanted to throw light on grave questions of deep in
terest "Without a spirit-, of courtesy and harmony,
it would be impossible to transact the business which
they were delegated to perform ; and from experi
ence, he was convinced that nothing would have so
great a tendency to destroy that harmony as an at
tempt to Withhold information which it is alleged, is
necessary to r ible gentlemen to arrive at correct
conclusions. He was not certain that the informa
tion sousht for would, when obtained, throw any
great light on the questions at issue ; but he was not
certain that it would not. We could not however,
have too much information when engaged in chang
ing the fundamental institutions of the country.
It was with the most perfect sincerity that he had
voted for calling ihis Convention. He had been in
fluenced by an ardentjlesire to quiet the hcart-buwi.
ings which the question had engendered ; but tho
he voted from a deliberate conviction of expediency,
he confessed he had dope so with fear and trem
bling.
They were engaged in no ordinary act of legisla
tion. What they should do, would be for the good
or evil of North-Carolina, God knows for how many
generations. Xet then gentlemen, if they want in
formation, have it there cannot be too much.
He agreed with the gentleman from Wilkes (Mr.
Wellborn) that it was not necessary a majority of
the oualined voters , should have actually voted for
calling a Convention, it is sufficient that there wa9
a Constitutional majority a majority of those who
did vote.
ex-
:be
much smaller tian
ote
for Electors of president and Vice-President, k as
36,036 . in 1828 it was 51,776; and the nun xr
of votes polled for; and against the Convention in
April last, was 49,244. He spoke of the estin tte
which had ben made of the increase of popula on
fv Mr W5Wn a p.rrnneous. and expressed jthiyJ
opinion that so far from our population havingin
creased 15 per cent, botween - the years 1830 ind
l ass it hit nnt wnilled 3 ner cent indeed he aas
not sure that it had not diminished, instead of
v
Ifvinir: ier br votibi-jurainst any proposition,
, steed be no scruples) of delicacy, as is frequently the
MM-nhen "eonsiderinc a Rcaolution moved by an
individualist resdrotions are reported by a
Committee asorrmng a plan, of opeiation for the
CAnveniion to act upon as they may 'judge proper.
fr Ju?e GJ suooosed this axnlanation scarcely neccs-
' aary .b'ut the matters on ' which, M Convention,
ari called upon to act, arevso momentous in prih-
clptt, and may be to important in their conaequen-ev-th1Vwisne4--
inWr4aatisfy hemselves
on every oueaoni and to coma to a -decisioa only
;sfter.fuUtnd frctdiscussion. i
t5 Anotion was made the Report Ha on the
table and be Tainted. , . '
" The President said the motion to print was in
rBc? Repok would, of course, lie on the u
fefenttt calicdnp
Gon. 8f kiobt did hot object to piintingth t Report;
bat said it would lve time if the Convention would
takc uo and refer the two first Resolutions, to which
t aupposed thei. could be no. objection, to appoint
propose d Cdrnmittces , as fhey could then imme
diately prepare ther necesssiry materials for making
Reports to tha Convention. He therefore made
thai motion. .
' Judge' D3tiRt was opposed to the reference of
t&aiLbjeets io question to a select Committee, at
present. H. would prefer committing the subject
te i Committee of the whole, in order to settle the
; qviestioh as to' the number of members of which each
loupe-fiihoubV consist When this matter was ad
..Justad, ir' would bei proper to refer -the subject, to a
,i 8et Committee, to prepare the details of a bill to
"carry; the views ofc Coavmtion into effiict
. , 'Dr. J.: SSxitji thought the proper course was
thai Recommended bj the Committee, in the Report
Just read. The Committee proposed, would con
aist of a member from each Congressional District,
tarsi wonhl byia full and free examination of the
. subject, &e able to form such a plan for effecting the
- leading4 objects of the Convention as would proba-
My meftl&e approbation of a large majority of the
moniScu present When.thU Rciort came before
the Convention, either in whole or in part, it would
W examined, discussed, and probably amended
. fAfter.a desultory debate of some length, on the
.motion to take up tlte Resolutions just referred, the
. . .cuestiOn- waa decided in the affirmative. ' The first
Repiution behig. under conaideration, Mr. Wilson
1 1 Perquitnons, moved to amend it rr striking out
sne member from etch Congressional District"
and Inserting " one member from each Judicial. Du-
'triet. . . On this motinn, coiiKiderabie debate arose,
eernectijrjo-; of the
pjratyn wss called fwr, and it Was first taken on
striking out, and decided in the negative, 74 to 51 .
Mr. Qaitftrri ixuivol to amend the Resolution by
providing lt :the appointment of ire comtniuces of
" -thirteen: each Tbne to consider of the amendment,
to bo made tp the Constitution, so far as rexpect
Bepresentatbo in the Senate; the other to coikl-
ar,.of amend menu in reUtion to Representation in
tba House of Comrm-ns. I'Jcgarived without a
ceunt Mr. MfOneeu then moved to enlargu the
Committee, . fitvm, to 2$ members, being two
from each Congressional District Thia motion
r prevailed, and tbe following ; gentlemen were pho
i son to eonatituta siL Committee,-vix: J. L ' Bai-
ley, Jei3 WU:.i, Dayid Outlaw, Judge Daniel,
Joseph' Hal.ey, Jo4ah Collins, R D. &piht Jcs-
' as 3ietght. Uv.f O ven, U wen Holme. Josiah Cru
. dap, WilBaeaP. Williams, John lX. Toomer, John
B. Klly, 4.' a.;Smkh,,'Kimbrough Jones, J. M.
MnrbMil, E. T Brodnax, Charles Fiahcr, Alex.
Cray, D. M. Banlnger, J. M.. Hutcbeson, Gov
' Swain, J.- McD.; Carsony Samuel King andGeorce
Bowers. ;-'-: !-';'? ;
j-'Mr'. J S'M temarked that the Convention
having now arrived at a lonvcnicnt point, he t$gfed
aeuMt. f Atr.-dlf.ns who ubiil?tted the fol-5 FZ proeuwd might uVire ,
! : T ""w uuiLHie vlsecx ot that infonna
. .t jUofltJ.nottoIoBwa thajjaboca of ti.is body; but t
not
creased. He repeated he had no objection to the
proposed enquiryf but for the purpose stated, pre
his modification. '
he would accept the gentlem
modification, his only object bcinq; to spread inbr-
mation before the public which he deemed essentia.
The several amendment were then agreed o,
and the Resolution adopted. The Chair appoirjed
on the Committee, Messrs. Jacocks, Jones, of We,
Tit. Smith, of Oranire. moved to consider ihe
.7 j - r . ,s
second Resolution resorted bv tha'ceneral Comuit'
tee, being thet. unfinished buiina of yestord
Aerced to.
Gen Wellborn moved to omeftd it so as to maKO ie
number f members composing the, Commune,
to correspond with the Commitee under the first ReJo
iu tion. I
Gen. Speigt of Greene, objected. It wojld
make the Committee too largj. ! Large bodies mdVe
slowly, and large Committees , could not dcsptitih
business with the facility of smaller ones. Hs thefc
forc suggested tojthe mover the propriety of wih
drawing his Resolution. " !
Gen. Wellborn accordingly; withdrew it j
Mr. JfiTtow, ofPcrquimons, moved to trp
out i" one from each Congressional District," ajid
insert "one from each Judicial District He sakl
this arrangement would embody more fully the.sn
rit which prompted the Legislature to call tfcjs
Convention. j'
Gen. . Wellborn opposed the amendment It was
absurd to contend that the principle. of selcctilg
Committees from the Judicial Districts was corrw
Mr. Mc Queen called for a division of the qui.
tion. ; " ;
Judge Cation said, that next in importance to
the great work of amending the Constitution,
was the duty imposed by the second Resolution
Personally, it was rnatter of little consequence
to him how the Committee should be constituted
whether the members should be taken from tie
Congressional or the Judicial Districts. Rut it
ought certainly not to be so srmll as proposed
it should he sufficiently lare to represent tlie
views and interests of the various sections of tli$
Stite. ' -
Mr. Wilton (of P.) said he appreciated the
force of the remarks made by the g-entlemai
from Craven, and therefore modified his amends
jvent so as to provide fr the appointment of twi
members from each Judicial distric'.instead of oe.
The question bein? loudly 'Called for, and the
President having stated it to be fir ;t on s;rikinj(
out, Mr. Jacock demandetl the ycat and nayi
which stood as follows : ayes 61, noes 64. S
the motion was lost. Judge Gaston moved a ver
bal amendment, to make it correspond wuh the'
H . . 1:1.1. V V
first Keaolution, ana .is amenaeti, me aeMiuuoi
was passed. Tlie following members were . cho
sen to constitute the Committee, v'z : Messrs!
Skinner, R ranch, Louis D. Wil-on, Mryan.
Meares, Gilliam, Toomcr, Montgomery, Shoberj
Giles, Shipp, Burchett and Pob on. ' . . "
JJr. Smith" of Orange, said be presumed th
next Rcsosulion would be considered in Corr
mittee of the whole, but to j aflbrd gentlemen
time for reflection, & a comparison of views, h$
moved to adjourn 4 but withflrew the. motion, at
the 8Ugo,rtnn or Judge Gaston, ,hat no, motior
had yet been made t submit the rem ining' Reso
1 1 . a. a . .
juyons 10 sum a iomnuuce..; a mo i ion tc th 4
ciicuv, i.i.,.kn uii ini wiki. i.wu w cacni
and carried, Dr. Sm th renewed his motion, and!
the Convention adjourned
be made known and "their wants communicated,
where relief may be ba l, ami that they shall not
' s rmide to bear mo-e thin .their fa r share of thev
public burthens. Mrty of the subjects af tasa
tionjire to be principiliy Dund in inoorporrfted
towns. ;Taxatlor without representation always
must lead to oppression. However deposed Jhe
Legislature might be to tlo exact justice in-the
apportionment of taxes, unless the int erests of"
these towns were d'rstiticily reprsented, they
might be in the situation of a Judge, who heart!
but one ide of a cate. Tha Rep,resentatiy; a
from:afew towcst in protecting the interests of
their immediate conatituents, became thus to a
certain extent, i euardians of the interests of all
the towns in the State. They were so few that '
their, votes eouhl hwe-hut little influence on the
decision but ,hy secured for these interests a
fair hearing. ' .
Another reason no doubt had its weight with
tha Iramers of our Constitution. Agriculture is
the gWat interest of this State. It ii decidedly
an Agricultural State bnt it r- not exclusively
so. Erey enlightened man knowa4 that corn
mere is the 1-est frieivdlnf Agriculture, yet.eve
ry man of experience knows that feuds will
sometimes occur between the best friends.
There will be occasional jealousies and rivalries
andthese, unless restrained, wilf burst out
into acts of enmity. ; There is eminent need on
these-occasions that the tew aiw! the weak'should
find A protector in the Legislative Hall. The
strong may protect themselves, but the weak
must invoke the protection of authority. And
evenlwhen there are:no misunderstandings and
no conflicting interests, Repress ntatVves are ge
neratjy n anted who, from their pursuits and as
sociati'ons, are familirly cognisant with those
subjects to which the-great boly of the Legisla
ture ipiust necessarily be strangers. '"How can
we elpect commercial, coneei.hs to be madej
telligible to a body of country' gentlemen, so a,
to procure a '"wholesome legislation upon them,'
except through the representatives of towns ?
For correct information in every art, recourse is
had to those who profess it. You go to the build
er fo't? estimates belbrej-ou ereet your house,
you Consult the physician when your health is
attacked, and ask advice of the lawyer when
your property is cuntested.' Or. questions which
.you have never had occasion to consider total
ly foreign from your hkbitv you are called up-j
on to legi date. Surely it is wise that there be
sume associated with you on whom yotf'may re
ly&t correct informaiion.
Out forefathers had probably discovered from
experience under our colonial stale', that the re
presentatives of Boroughs (as they are called)
were usually distinguished for intelligence, firm
ness and independence, an 1 might, have been
unwilling to deprive the. Legislative councils of
the aid of such men. It cannot be doubted but
that the collision of rffihds strengthens the men
tal faculties. .When men are brought int close
c.onneciion and interchange habitually their opte
nii'in on the various subjects which engage their
attention as social beings, there will be this col
Jiion4 He who reprrsenia constituents lo every
line of whom he is intimately known; and with
whom he every day associates, feels thnt h $ le.
gisIat.Ve acts arc not subjected to that misrepre
sentation, nor his motives to that rmsonstiuc-
on, Which might with greater success be at
tempted againstone less favorably situated, tf
such attempts be made they must be made open-
y, an 1 can be instantly met. He is not under
the necessity of travelling first to one and then
to another corner of a c m.tly to explain nt
vindicate ; his conduct. Without claiming for
him an extraordinary portion of vitrue, he can
thi d'stVancbisemnUv. Sir'viit Mr- G- in ih
town wivereidrew rhy firsts id J)ope todrt
rnyy.Ust ihr?ath,,-nd; whicli- rsfwie in tje
county that I have thf fionoc in part, i0re,
present, auch 'Cotr.ta linve indeed i occurr
aid. have beenVcoriicted;witli naCCrimi,,
which airpaty ejWests never fail torengend.
Our citixen haYe ttCC isionally ,&een r .Sited o.
ttial no!ilic:Upnrenzv ironjii'Pa "'uiB inj.
ry to be attended to by our leglslitiire.in behalf
of these. Uofough town. It is true, thai men of
talents arc frequently sent to the Legislajure to
represent these townv but if the townSj were
deprived of the privilege of sending members,
the ame men would probably be elected' from
the counties in which the town "tare situated.
f Besides, professianallmen and coantry mer
chants are, frequently sent to the Legislatore by
the counties and commercial men could whene
ver they pleased, present any object to the Gev
nefal Assembly by way of memorial, which would
doubiless be attended 9m "
Has the monlcondition of the Borough to wns,
asked pr.3)mproved by thV-priiilege which
they Possess of sending members trtbe f gisla
ture 7 On the contrary, the annual elections,1 it
t ii'iiurious, in. most or tne tnwn, are pmouct;
ive of feuds, qnarrels andJloo;lihed I Mechan
ics and gathers are excited by the ptrtie inte
rested in such "elections- business is neglected,
and the morals of the people are corrupted.
These excesses may not be be' so prevalent in
the large towns as in the smaller though, he
presumed, they existed to some extent in all
And he could see no reason why a few men re
sident in a town should ponsess as much politi
cal power as the largest county in the State. At
time when we arc about to, .correct irregularities
in our Constitution this' inequality ought not to
be overlooked. lie hoped therefore, liis motion
would be agreed to. j n !
Gen. Wellborn doubted the propriety of abol
ishing Borough Representation altogether, know
ing from experience, that the most talented
members of the Legislature are generally sent
by these towns. It is true, that these men might
be elected to represent the counties in which
the towns are situated, were the town elections
abolished, though lie was aware of the existence
of a prejudice in the cotintr against taking
members from towns. He thought the Seaports,
where the commerce of the country is principal
ly tarried nn, and whose interests are distinct
from those of thecountry at large, oight to send
Represent:ttives who understand, and who would
be able t defend, tliem. .' He should like to hear
the subject further discussed.
Judge Daniel said, it true, that some of the
uorougn towns were small, but they contain
' Wtlfc. Au&ot-
Mr. Gaither rose to move an amendment, viz
" that the Committee report a Tabular Statement
showing the vote of the I people on the Convention
Question, at the Election in 1833. The vote taken
in April last he contended, was not a fair test in
asmuch as it was not the usual time of holding elec
tions, and the people did not turn out. But in Au
gust when they had been accustomed to repair-to
the Polls," the vote was some indication of the
strength of the friends of Conventio t
Mr. Jacocho hoped the amendment would prevail,
though he did not, believe a Poll was opened in
his county (Perquimons) on the question.
M,r. King had no objection either to the original
Hcsbiutiito -r the amendment but he thought there
was: a marked difference between the vote of 1833
anu i two. i ne nrsi yas tween without the sanc
tion of the Legislature, and the question was. Will
you alter the Constitution or not ? In 1835. .the
npple went with a perfect understanding of the
qnestion to the Polls. It was directly propounded
LA re you fur, or n?ain$t a. Convention! One reason
wny me peopie aia not more generally turn out at
the last Election, was, the certainty of success, as
indicated bythe ,vot ojf l 833 Another was, the
busy season had just commenced among the farmers,
and they were too mpich engaged to leave their lwmes:
Mr. Wilson, of & said, that in April laat. the
people, were callinl out for a specific object which
w&i laid down in the Act of Assembly, to be found in
almost every voter's house. Why then was there
not a generaf turn out?, have bought a voice of
oxen anu cannoi come 41 have married a wife and
"'"-"" vwuiis, i obr. mese excuses were
all Collide red evasions in Scriptnrfc and en. he n.
suraed, were he reasons given why the voters did
not turn out. He would trtl the gentlemen from
, 5 Wb7 J. ?ot.S?--teyere dissatisfied
with the Act. nod did nftt' fii ;n.rn. :u
tfctn ,vHthaake4 lb gentleman from Burke fMr
Gaidier) for lusmewlmcnt He Lat&
gation, and wanted aU t&e Ught that could be tlwown
t'rtM; .ifi.t. a. -aLIm .Ia ....... .
-TT--. w uw in wKi uon io ill inf in'nrrai.
Wednesday, June 10, ,
After Pravcr bv the Rev. Dr. MThcetfrs.
Mr. Council Wooten, a Delegate from Lenoir, ap-i
peared, was qualified and took his seat. j
Mr. Letuer laid on the table a Resolution propos'
ing the appointment of a Committee to whom should!
be referred so much of tan Act providing for this!
Convention, as relates to the reduction of the number;
of the members of the Senate and House of Com-
mons, for the purpose 'of reporting a plan for carry -i
ing tho same into effttct
Gen. Jacock-e;- from the Committee appointed to
report the number of votes given in favor of a Con
vention at the election in August 1833, as well as
at the late election, ' and also the' number of ovudified
voters in the State, made a Report, which was or
dered to be printed.
The Resolutions Yesterday referred to a Commit
tee of the Whole coming up for consideration, on
motion, the ConvenUon resolved itsHf into a Com
mittee of the whole, and the President called Gov.
Sitm to the Chair.
Dr. J. 8. Smith moved that the Committee take
up the lltn Resolution, which has relation to the
meeUng ofthe'GenTal Assembly, whether it shall
be annual or biennial. He thonehtilit bpst tn tv
up this Hesolimon; in preference to the 3d in relation
to JJorough members, which was fir.t in order.
Several membera objecting to this course, and de
siring the Resolutions to be taken up regularly, the
question was taken for first considering the 1 1 th. and
negatives w " ;
The third Resolution, which directs, an enquiry
whether any and what amendments are prop, r loin;
made as to the exclusion in whole, or in part of Co
rough Members from the House of Commons, i"jas
then taken up for consideration, i
71-, r C ".. t 3 , . .
jji . m. u. uwwt itiwyeu io sltisr oui me wnotooi l
veiitute with more confidence to follow out and
suktun with manhueS'i his own convicu jos ot
right.; II the framer of our Constitution thus
believed., our experience under t tie Constitution
ha proved that this belief was well founded.
It is not always that the towns which have the
right of representation in our General Aasemly
have ami their ablest and their best men. Hut
.ill will admit that geuer-lly the town members
have jbeen among ihe most inteLizent, liberal
and independent members of tlut body.
Are not these and reasons like thete, sufR
cientjo warn us against a hasty determination to
iholish altogether IJorough representation ?
Tnere imy be some ot the seven towns to whom
the right has been given that are now too incon
.siderable lo be permitted to retain it. It such
ie the case, let !u reform as tti them but under
the idea of rcfor ning, let us beware .of ra.nh iu
novation. f
It may be, added Judge G. that I am under a
bias trosn the circiimstaivcc of my resuliiii' & hi'
vin,? alr.iy reside. in One of the towns to which
decapitation s threatened. However thi may
tie n can not ueirucr trom the torce Ot the re4
son which I have sugssted, if Upon consider
ation it appears ta the Cm niitee tht they in
deed have' -force. From the citizens of tltut town
1 linvjs received no communications on the sub
ject but 1 cannot dou'ut their opinions. -..With
a lull knowledge thai one of the Questions which
was to oe referred to this Convention wi fie
propriety of dislrancliising them of a right which
must be dear lo thcin tro.n long enjoyment an! J
experience or us utility, with a voice ahno.t
unanimous they gave their' suffrages Hbr a Con
vemioii. They resolved to pent this right in
an attempt to reconcile discoidant sectional inte
rests, and to remove those lieait burnimrs which
misirusv ana prejudice Had spread througu our
land..: 4- " t '; 'ft ?' ' 'v
In this hope he had concurred with them
He earnestly trusted that the attempt might be
uccesful, but it could not br, tinlrss a spirit of
harmony whs encouraged heie. This spinf cer
tainly required that in what was called the
struggle torpourer, a minute and catenating
jealoasy should be suppr.a.el. A member more
or a inember less o i One or the other side ot the-l
state w;.s in itseit a matter of very btile momeiv.
As judged a struggle ffbr power, he vieVcd the
subject irt Cdnveniion asgreaily exiggrtedby
ihe tifcar of the one and in the aspiraiions of the
ui..- Kcwn n uie co nmunity, Oi his friends
tlie Resolution, after the word j Resolved. and le Bast, wtto Irti.l heretofore possessed ft
. . , ... u.u,uuiuugii A.ci-AMJin.t- T .-..r., iiA. jiiijjniy oeiicu.s n.-ive -iwe
-wonenoreiy. . ; . , i -i-JSltkWW'irqril it f And to-Iiis-brethren of the W.t'
The question being called for on this anndme4lff,r0o,)'; yod"' iMeThoped that they would
,8ar' a oiu man as presum.ituotis in ven
tiiniig thei : pd.c;iroi4i in
Ki..ig theglitterin, pr zf, theV w.t) essentially
k,;d '"C value far below the estimate
which they wow put upon iu In the formation
of a Weinment, the en wens caif-meet udoa
no other ground than that bjT precis equality of
power-but in the aiT-nemehti 6fa invent.
oicni p is imjiossi we o pursue a schem V f ma-
men of t dents, and sent able Representatives to
he l-eg statu re i and, as had been remarked by
the gentleman from Craven,, political power
cannot be equally divided. Some nortions nf
country are. more advanced in know'rdjje and
civilization than others, so that a state of equal
ity cannot oe pre-crmed. Judge D. gave an
historical account of the origin .of Borough Re
present ition and of the Honse' of CootmoiM in
England, which he said arose from the creataid i
wnicn tne trading and wealthy pornon of the
community hnd, it in their nwer to afford to the j
King in carrying-oVi War.JScc. " Judge D denied
the position of the gentleman from Orange thit
because Congress bad the power to regulate
commerce, there was now no necessity for Bet-
rougn members to. take cars of commerctar In-
terests in our Leglslarure.tThe commerce which
t.ongres3 regula'cd was the commerce of the
United States with Foreiirn Countries wh.rn
he trading'iiiterest which the Borough "mem
bera were expected to attend to, were tlursj of
our own State--and especially to see that this
portio'i ot our amen' were not overburdened
with more thtti tlieir doe portion of ttxes. lie
was aware that the election of these members
were at time .productive, of a good deal of ex
citement and bad feelincr i.but tliis was an evif.
n some others which atten 1 the enjoyment of
mc pnvueges or a free Government. He hoped
the motion would be disagreed to.
Ji-ir. Dpcherjf moved to except the towns of
iHcwbem, Wilmington and Fiyetteville, from
the motion of the i"-:ntleman from Oranre.
Mr. Halseumoved to strike out Favetteville.
and add rldhton to the amendment nrorxiserL
The President declared the motion out of or
der. . ' ml
Judge Gaston observed, that t"ie amendment
to the amendment, bnuht before the Commit
ter the question of partial, in preference to total
abolition of B.rough representation. - It was
difficult to diacius this precise question, with
out adverting to the principle involved in the
original amendment. He hoped therefor, that
he would be excused for adding a Tew wbr ls.in,
reUtion to the general question, which would
bear also upon the immediate propo-siti'iffi. ?
. He thought the gentlem tn from Or.nge mic
rurate in tracing the origin of representation in
the.English H m?c of Comtnons-The grinding
to Boroughs corporate powers for the regu
lation" of their intern d concerns. aroe from
ihe desire to encourage and faster thrir pursuits
their mercantile trading andmechnicalne?
rations. But t lie incorporation of JV iroughs was
not to be confounded with their sending of re-
prsseniauves to Parh.on.ent. Tlie: Titter had
ns; cngin m anofher principle, which m'ght
be callei Jthe very founddio-iof
English rreedom. t. The necessif the King
req.iired subities ocgra0t and these could
be obtained only by the assent of the ere-it boty
of his subjects. ;gThey were levied , itpoa real
ait'tu)un personal propi
the principitl borougns
unoed ana the tradi
through their knights
delegates, wera, su mm
declariug thevamouat of subsidv whicii thev
were willing to grant, and the rule of assessment
uponnds aiv.t personal property, y It wus this
principle of Toluntary gr mts-of represehtat ion
fur the, purpose d' taxiiin, which brought the
imrgessesinfo the House of Commmi. wTaxa-
tiou and iet)resen a)i.n " were regarded fatsi.f-.
separauie ooce brought iifto the leg's! Vtiv;
until thejr. grief anees were reitressed," they
gradudly becirai ahle to rindicatei the-r rig.'its
they Micreased Inlwealihheir
tribute iiwreael.;Teir reasonable claims
they are Infreq-ut-nt. The. public attentio Tl,
ge ieral l directed to sametnT'W" wno.Wit
out op po ition tir canvas, is called. toteprt
them. In the smdl towns.it may SeliOther'
an I if these are oa!onser fit to intrust d wita
tlii; right of' separate representation, tahe it
from them. But because these? to be s.
eluded,' do not disfranchise all.
. It is in vain deny that oorarnercisl corotn-.
nities have peculiar" interests of 'thejr ovm.
Tlit-ss they musT endeavor to protect and,,!,
vanee tlirough some agent ornther. If ve d
ny them a Conltit utional agent. 'tliey will be
driven to get-agents of another kind It tt-r
are to . have no member in the Hill of Leriiiu
tion they mav be. compelletl to send yon
by members' Heard in theLegistaturr, thw
canT do -no harm.'i- Soifew irtntmber, their
voice c in beeitectual o ly when itis the voiCe
f truth and justice. ;( j,,itwlTten na'ierssof iht
AMeojbly i shall oe approached thro' the other
agentsTSneans off persuasion, may be used f (
different character. The intelligent imy indeM
be adlresed by reason, and the-just by f,i
statements but the uninformed may be mi
by falsehood, and, those whose cons nence v
in. their pockets-vmay be convinced by ar
ments directed to the seat of their sensibility.
Mr. JTtysaw mproprieiy in iioritiuuing B
rough representation, .which hettliought woulj
be iriconsistent with theprincipde proposed ti
be established by, fixinnp our represemalioa
in the General Assembly on federal 'tVnrYta
and taxation combined. ' For though teCm
merce of the 'State "may- he principally c-rKci
on in the, towns of Niwbern, Wtlmingtoa and
Fayetleville- ih it is no reason why they shaall
ech 'send vSnfembervas they WooVd be rtpn
sented on the' s une commoii grottnd with li (tit
other inhabitants of the Sute. c He hal 1ii'
ed with attention to tlie) argunrents which hid
been urged iifavorothcr motion before tfts
Committee bir had wot beenionvincel ir
them. Tie had i doubt that the repreerti.
lives from the-cuhtieajn -which the serfrJ
Boroughs are sitiuted; would attend sufficitw.
ly to their interest. ifn4 of them were not
generally, the very man whom the ton
would have elected lid they possessed the pri
vileire of dtrinir a. -.
On motion, the Comroitle'fXrose, reported
. 2- w .l. l
i nropres. . and asced teive to sit scam wiiin
being granted, the Cventton then adjournii,
tul to-morrow; morning V o'ctocsV;
After oraver by the' Rir Dri M'PUeteri
the President look tho-.XJuirand the Cmmi
tion hiving res3lved to consider the, unfiaishW
business of yesterday; f s ' l
Got?. ZSaain hoaed the Presi.lent wiuldeia
ioij other gentleman : iopisU in, C ;n nitte
of the whol, as hs - felt sone -vh.it Vind spicil,
ana wis:ica io De exctwca iroii iniiservice.
The .Convention th"?vrpioiveditself into i
in reUtioni to D rouga Members, Jade Duiii
, Toe question being atatet. Or. Smith of
Orange, rose and aaiil, he had yesterday lisle
ed with attention to the rem.rxs of the geutW
men from Craven and Cumberland, in op po
tioM to his motion for abalMhtng the Birjurt
membefsT but had heard. nothing ftoca thea
which had made any cliange m his opinion.
11 stiU thmight if the Coiivention adopted tbt.
oasis or representation, as propose.!, it ougnt n
to bedepsrred from in anv instince. Hi .wwl
have preferred that this question respecMng1 Hi'
rough members should ltet)ver fbt the preset
as ne uia noi s-c noaii .'.ii-ine Mepreseiiiimo
in thiir seats wl)o"took? riiost interest in ti
.1 - t't A?.ii '.:i-r r.. '; :.,
.c.imii ti i.iw 110 iiec easily ' lor prcM,i
the q 1 est i-ri 1 heM th eref ore, moved that U-
Conmiite risea'nd ask 4leave to St 1 again . VtM
Mr. MurarfcjfQt&vtg&lie CommIttee'iIi",
rising, and the qaesTaon oeing taken it wai tt
Governor Suxun said, since he heard the, r4 f ft
mrksofthe getitlemiin fromOtini
he was himself disposed ' tp reject both e4f!
amendments before the Committee, and peral n
the origin. r-U-solution to go to a- select CuiiJ $;
mittee, in order, if pr ieTiedte,' that son e ptss ,? t
might be devised to s ;cureepresentatiou t mi
larg? towns now in existence, and ihaie whitjl
migut snrinff up in arlv section of thrf St itf.-
Tii mighf periiaps done without pr d ten;
oNeat inoalitv bv5whhdrAin fV im the etit rWJ1
mtte in the app'jrtionintnt of reirVsent.twi $
the counties the 'pul-tiin jairiil reveinie
tneseoo oigtis. nj tUAirel to see this res
proiwcel,if"Wittiii the legitimate rtue : f 8
power"tnut ven if itjcul.l it be done.
t hougiit th rt tlW Urge towns should in no ef!
Sedprved:Bf t'fslresefitatioa. i
tJSaidtftat ;f hater -r motives im'j '4
veinrldeneett others -Iritiiiig fo the call if A
.the;pcurctiof ttietStte: whence tf p j
larjrernortibn ofth 1 trt-nriters of A hp nalv e if 'l.-v
i
had l'tile weight -f:th
cupivd higher ground.
If' the hitor of our l
Judge Gaston roae and said, that he trusted tlwt
t his proposition woti Id not be s decided wilioa t
Uscusion. While it is oordtitysir; ,said he,
to the extent of bur pow r fto remove "whatevtr
blemishes we may tliicover in the
W Krllfrl r--AAAI ... .!. . -1 s
inrtKluee evils which we know, not of
ngs iaterests the former t r wir "J??". "V ; MM
nd the latter by theirfrHf'r1 ' 31
onecitoe ih niirria amirter.;.wtiatare the basis OiTtrUl-
I sentstinn. Tie ftlt tne-fiiil fiir :e of t is reia'lf Y
coukl not longer be restated, and politick pow
er was the necessnryesttU. Thji s me urin-
cip le no taxa ion without represehtio
leit we
lint l( n.ntt "it J
prudent when makfn? a chimrn in f !.. n,.t.;..i
llllttltlllinnc ftriUa Ominl.r a J .,
ui mv btnuiuji ne pari n;:fiirtlier
irom exist
Tliere are
'J- a a
juv.i ensnjjes, ana often
wen. ,
ing usages than nrcessity requires thematic-! equality.! Care sUonld be taken tht
-.-.;.1,..w..,iiCiK.icsriiimiii rrom : '" f5wcr4.e win m the ereat hnrfv nF th
cpmrfeunity shoohf pr'lomJnte but cre must
al o tfd had .that the Voice fa.'rand everr pof
-..4 u ' 9 - 1
iiuuiicn auuivs were not tor.
L 1 1 1 whir k
was xue iound.itio;i.vfpohtictl liberty iii Rng-'
!'fU!5'ntofpoCtisI.
on this sid tf-fieJAtUittic- and isinthlWl
our pecul ar reverence. t What bacom. f U it
VOtV aboliidl horoiiirh r-nrt-nl.l. T a .... i
Pyril i"?:0 aretojiaye noFoice intiiet
yKjW? tiitf member lit the
n!uef ,hicw-,U,'i
co.sthfitttte
otf?Mwvcrl regreX
veliave not eacornnerciirTyn
wr? y ,,b-,'mi principally fid
of tlaf-ar ;nt! ni!u rVtMii ifli'tv.ii.Viv. l,pt
regrd to t respon.bdity winch th-J ",J"1 r; ti
of po itical power wntid impulse up irt Xha " I
pr lofifcis neaes-iiry OMihew. that sectid'aal "
ferencesi 1 hit h-,lllce - counter id n-i ,
weights ii micli.nics. rrentatiU leiriUH' l)
'action tor th trAfVsX imnrnv ainl of l C"f 1
. . 'U I ; 7 . . --l"-""- - I.v4
He repeated. thattie bisis of reore entHH
rh Cii he; desire I lis see esia iHshed.
! . .' . ... .... .. . i.,tAlT-Ti
ana sua' o Hv wtvc'4 wmtt secure tne '.' iLii
- "... - . . i ArfiTT-6
a Ve aji ifitelbgace and hberalry to tne ,CRM?,
bt've Coiutcds sf the-Stite. If" we rl u.'0" 1 ii.
priiicinle. andrcur to the cta).n ie nf im'
hi.triouIe I, and the illusti to is ilivmjr,
haver thro i 'hmt the whole peri iv'f '!lf
politlcat exi-teoee constittte 1 th ltK"i,",r
preseytAt on, we wdl fir mI Utile reas ii t"
frsncfuse then. If we f ro n the ft?
senti'iiv- l the . constituent, tlie
'viw-Vitlvhs.foedttimi us. T.ie t"'
yotof i the borough;, mem Ters, was the ?
Which ctlled this ;o.Veuri.in into
nasi trasI-P.a.A-.f4Skftj - m a . t HP)??
-...-t'i:...-:..fJ .-- :.i ici"
ji-! wm fi, oiausrit ctiniinniiiiiH, uih m
.A , t 1.1 .A-Jlltifi
cis vre nwuiiw. ITS UC1 rcprei ---
Ait lfj-1l a .ilit.. aa ... I.a f fir '
.. k a - ... ' . , "a . . 1.. l!1'
- . . . . r ... X - J .. a.ak. r . A aaw a, , . . A V 1 L I . . .. . M I , '
thairm-rKeAS iuythe Star wj' ' ,,. frff
:1
Our fbrtfathera must have had sorn reason '
; H '- !
tiwu tXit shwuM be beurwL