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CONGRESSIONAL SPARRING. y j
Having alluded in our last to the personal conversation
between Messrs. Staxit and Brum, on the floor
of the Housed we take the following account of it
from the Pjroceedings of , Congress, as reported for
. the National Intelligencer :
v.; ' i "FaiDAT, JiirtrAftT, 3.
Innnediately after the reading of the Jour-
Ural Mr, Jenifer rose and said : I ask the
minlgmce of the House vfhiUt lcall their
attention for a few momenta in relation to a
matter which personally concerns myself. I
do not rise to ask a correction of the Jour
j nals, but for the purpose of pointing their at
! tention to a report of the proceedings which
took place on Tuesday last. In the Globe
of Tuesday evening, which purports to give
a sketch of the debate upon the resolution of
the gemfeimn from Pennsylvania, (Mr. Ser
jeant,) lo alter the 20th rule of the House
to allow further time for the daily presenta
tion; of petitions," I find the following re
marks? .
"Mr. Bynum appealed lo Mr. 3 arla.nd, to
"withdraw the motion for the previous ques
tion, a he bad been attacked by three gen
ftemen on the opposite side, and had
, Been , grossly misrepresented, and he only
. wished to say a few words in reply to those
gentlemen, (Messrs Johnson, of Maryland!
Jenifer, and Stanly.) He should think it hartf
ff he were not granted Itliis privilege.,
j Mr; Garland said he would not withdraw
'his motion for the previous question, which
cut1 off further remarks; on the subject.
. Mr4 Bynum then said that it was the usu
al practice of that party, after having, two or
three bullies to attack ja gentleman and do
him injustice, to refuse to let him reply to
uch attacks."
The1 distance of my seat from the member
tfronV North Carolina, and the usual want of
order in the Hall, prevented me from dis
! tinctlyj hearing, what was said upon that oc
casion Three days have elapsed since the
remarks appeared in the Globe, and, as far
. aa 1 have seen, without correction. I am
left to infer that they were either expressed
on this floor or authorized to be reported.
Had 1 heard them, T do not know that I
should have noticed them, well knowing that
Ihey Would be properly "appreciated by gen-'
tlemen. here.: But, as they have been pub
lished ijoJhe cotumns.of the Globe, and sent
through the country it may be expected that
some response should be given.
I wish it to be distinctly understood that I
do not rise to complain; that I do not feel
aggrieved ; that I take no offence at whatev
er maV have1, been said, or reported to have
been said, coming from that quarter. Still,
a regard for the kind opinion of friends, and
respect for myself, which I hope ever to
retain, requires that I should "define my
' position" in relation to the member .from
North Carolina, i
Since the 7th day of June, 1836, (a day
which the member, no doubt, well remem
bers,) I have purposely avoided noticing any
thing he might say, or in any manner com
ing in contact with him, well knowing that
no laurels were to be gained, when even
victory would be a disgrace. Under these
circumstancs, my friends need feel no appre
hension on my account. But, to prevent
.misunderstanding, and to do justice to my
self 1 desire it to be also understood that, if
Upon any occasion I have, or hereafter may,
. wound the feelings of any gentleman, I shall
always hold myself bound to make an hon-
orable atonement, or meet him in an honor-
able way. But he must be a gentleman
worthy the notice of an honorable man. !.
Mr. Keim here rose, and was addressing
the Chair, whenr- Is -
Mr Byjctjm said he hoped the gentleman
from Pennsylvania would give way for ;a
moment. He said1 he had not distinctly
heard the gentleman, from Maryland (Mr.
. - Jenifer) in the remarks he had made in ref
erence to himself. As to the language re
ported in the Globe, it was his language, or
substantially so; and he was responsible for
it, both in:. the House and out of, it. hen
using it, he had felt himself illiberally dealt
with by the gentleman from Louisiana (Mr.
Garland,) by the gentleman from Maryland,
(Mr. Cost Johnson,),- by the honorable geii
tleman from New York, (Mr. Hoffman,) and
by the gentleman from North Carolina, (Mr.
Stanly?) He had not looked upon the
character of the debate j as absolutely and
personally insulting. He did not, indeed,
t know at the time whether it was the inten
tion of either of the gentlemen to act toward
. him in: that way, but they had certainly
: grossly misrepresnted him. -
Let him say to the gentlemen from Mary
land (Mr, Jenifer) that, ever since the mem
orable 7thi of June, 1836, his conduct toward
that gentleman jhad been the same as that of
( the gentlemanJtoward himself; he had never
' volunteered, either in the House or out of it,
to disturb or interfere with that gentleman.
There were others in the House with "whom
he found himself on the same terms. He
j considered it as the duty of a gentleman,
when he had had a difficulty with another,
and that difficulty had been settled, not to be
forward to reopen the door for another diffi
. culty unless he was disposed to act the par.
-s of a bully. 4 He had always" abstained from
any interference with that eeiuleman, and
had been chide'd for it by a member on that
floor ; iut he had conceived it, his duty as a
fentlemau to avoid further intercourse ; and,
therefore, when the gentleman from Mary
land had indulged in remarks, however keen
and cutting, he had not noticed them, on the
ground of the subsisting relations between the
gentleman, and himself ?not that he deemed
inch remarks unworthy of notice. And he
' appealed to every gentleman here present,
i whether such was not held to be the proper
course for one in those circumstances. And,
in confirmation: - that he was correct in this,
the gentleman, had here avowed it to have
beetrJiis own course towards Mr. B. But,
ijhetitlier day, that gentleman had got up and
possly misrepresented him and his motives.
The remarks indeed, were not directly, in
nUing, botrather so. It was (said Mr7 B.)
what I had not1expected, but still I find no
fault with it; and if, according to the usual
s courtesy of the House, I had been permitted
.o answer, l should have done it Icouceiv-
i
ed ryself to have been reohed to in a strain
of iliiberality; and when thje debate was con-
cluueu when ouiues or nnampions iu uo
bateit is pretty much same thing I
used the two terms in the panic sense had
concluded their attack, I jrpuld have vindi
cated my coprse, and shown the gentleman
from Maryland that he haul misunderstood or
had misrepresented me. My opinion rather
was, that they had misunderstood me. As
to the gentleman (Mr. jjmifer) 1 did not
know that he.was in the House at'the time
in my remarks I had nt him in my eye.
I cannot tell what he means to insinuate jn
referring to a certain day i in June ; but if
he means to insinuate that I lost a particle
of honor or that occasion, ie says now what
he did not say then he in donates here what
he did not on tlitf ground, j We both shook
hands, and he did not say hat the affair had
been settled o my discredit ; if he says oth
erwise, I should like him 6 speak out. If
we are to hive another Outbreak, and the
gentleman is desirous of jit it is not a
matter for m? to spsak of Here. I am sorry
it has been thought of sufficient importance
to occupy the time and attention of the House
these are private matters. If the gentle
man had called upon me, l; would have ex
plained to him my meapirt j: and if he had
beon aggrieved by the use (if the word 'bull y,i
I would have told him thpt by that term I
meant a political champiorf.t But if that gen
tleman undertakes lo be mif lecturer in this
House, we cannot both stiy here nor long
in this' world. I have no more to sjay.
After Mr. Bvnom finished his remarks i-
Mr. Stanly said, as he "had been person
ally referred to, he hoped he might have the
privilege of saying a few vprds. And what
I say, Mr. Speaker, will jjdepend upon the
answer I receive to a question I shall ask
the member who has jnst 'taken his sear. i
I would ask him, sir, civilt, and I hope he
wilj have no objection to giving a civil an
swer, whether he intended; to use the word
44 bully' in an offensive sense, oi? merely, as
he said, as champion irj debate." 1 did
noldistinctly understand liijn up m this point.
Mr. Bynum said he had already explain
ed what he meant, and had no objection to
giving a civil answer to a .civil question
And he said he should not repeat what he had
stated, and that he never considered his col
league a bully in any way.J
Mr. Staniy proceeded, j Mr. Speaker, in
what I am about to say, I shall refrain from
using any indecorous language. Self-respect,
and respect for the House,; will prevent my
doing so. -When I came here, sir, a little
more than two years ago, I brought with me
the determination to be civil and courteous to,
every member of the House. I resolved
never to be guilty of using offensive language,
unless provoked. I have acted up to this re
solve. Although I came determined to cul
tivate social relations with all gentlemen, I
soon perceived the necessity of avoiding all
intercourse with the individual who has just
taken his seat Never before, Mr. Speaker,
have 1 -met a North Carolinian from home
that I did not feel my heart yearrt towards
him as to a brother. No matter if we had
been foes at home abroad I could not look
upon him as an enemy. But, sir, shortly
after my arrival here, I warded my colleagues
not to introduce me to tlvjs individual. I
have never looked upon him and thought of
my native Stale thaH I did not feel ashamed.
The Speaker here interposed, and said
he had permitted the gentleman from Mary
and lo make a statement by the indulgence
of the House, but that the debate must not
proceed in this way. :
Mr. Stanly said: As I have been refer
red to, I want to say but a fjw words in rela
tion to myself ;1 will relieve the Speaker
from any embarrassment, and will endeavor
not to transgress the rules. ! I will make but
one remark more, sir. At the last session
of Congress, I came into collision with that
individual, and applied to him, personally,
the most, grossly -offensive epithets. He
made a direct", unequivocal threat that he
would have satisfaction. I Wailed, patiently,
to hear froin him but, sir, I have never
heard a word from him: sin'e that day. If,
therefore, sir, I had heard tfje remarks which
he says he made, I could not and should not
have taken the least notice ipf him.
The Speaker again interfered 3
Air. Stanly said, Mr. Sfieaker, I shall not
condescend to tlue use of offensive language :
I will only repeat, that, afie my remarks of
he last session being unanswered, Iannol
notice any thingjfrom that quarter. 1 have
said this much t lat my conduct may bp un
derstood. ' f;
After Mr. St nly sat diwn, Mr. Bynum
said Bah ! II
Mr. Stanly said to Mr.! I Bynum that he
was a beggar for his life andSfor what of char
acter he had left.
Mr. Bynum made some reply, the terms of
which were not heard distinctly by the re
porter, j; "
Thisrunpleasant conversation here ended.
, MESSRS. CLAY AND CALHOUN.
In Senatk.
Friiiat, January 3.
AgfreaWy te notice given oq Tuesday last, M
-rf J -. . v.. v u a will I CUU
trie public lands to the States in .which they are res-
jit-tiiveiy snuauni. i i.e did wasiieaU hy its title, a
Hid
uu Miuuuu oi air. kj. , roiemu to uue Committee
on
ruuitc jjaiidd: . .
Soon after, Mr. Clat (of Ky.y having given n
ticeof his intention to
right bill, stated that lie renre tect: tht Kp ,ii;.
ed by imposition rhjs moriiihg.arnl revenlt-d from
being rosen,l when he bill was intr.Iuced by the
9enator from South (pnroliua (Mr. Talboun) tor ce
ding the public laudato certain States within which
they are situated. He had wished lo suggest some
other reference of it than to thi Committee on the
Public Lands ; but, Unless some Senator would move
a reconsideration of the order of reference to that
committee, he could riot offer the Suggestion which he
wished to make. I
Mr. Southard moved the reeopsideratijn, and Mr.
Calhoun objecting to it without some satisfactory
reason.; .. j
Mr. Clay went on to observe that, as the commit
tee was constituted, four of its "five members were
froiri the new States. He meant to offer no disrespect
to them ; but he must say that IhisWas a measure
which, disguised as it may be, ?nd colorable as u
provisions were, was, in effect, a oualion of upwards
oil 00 millions of acres of the common property of
all the States of this Union to particular States. He
did not think it right that such a measure should be
coram tied to the hands of Senators exclusively rep-
lie thought that a committee
ouht to lie constUuted iii which tho old State should
- . . f . . - ti;n!.li Aiiiii
have a luller ami wirer rtpisemauon. w
preserve, whatever wc may do, the deenruin of legis
lation, and not vwiaie iae uecencies oi jusucc.
WhiUt up, Mr. Clay would be glad if any Senator
would inform him wbHhcr the Administradoa "8 lo
favor of or against this measure, or stands WOiwi
and uncomtnitteJ. I rus inqwry no snouiu nuin.-r.
if the recent relations between the Senator whe iniToV
duced this bill and the head of , that AdramKratW
continued to exist ; lut rumors, of which tbe Vij
circles, and the press arc full, assert that thosa tiff.
Uons are entirely changed, end hawe wilia a jfrw
days, been substituted by ot'.sers of aoJhlimalli fi-i0nct-ly.
afid confidential nature. And shortly after the
time wlJrn this new state of things is alleged to have
taken place, the Senator gave notice of hi intention
to move to introduce this bill. Whetherlhis motion
has or has not any connexion with that adjustment
of formor diiferences, the Public would, he had no
doubt, bo glad to know. At all event it is impor
tant to know in what relation of 'support, opposition,
or neutrality, the Administration actuilly stands to
this momentous measure j and he (Mr. C.) supposed
that the Senator from South Carolina, could commu
nicate the desired information. ' ; .
Mr. Calhoun said he had supposed that no man had
as much occasion for delicacy in referring to political
compromises a the Senator from Kentucky. That
Senator had referred to some traduction in the politi
cal course of. Mr. C. which occurred some twelve or
thirteen years ago, and had alluded to certain passages
in which Mr. C. was accused of, changing his politi
cal relations. But that Senator knew that it was oth
ers w ho. had changed their relations to political sub
jects and political measures rather than Mr. C, who
had followed less in regard to those subjects and mea
sures than he was followed. The Senator was accus
tomed to have his example followed by others liu i
Mr. C. had not usually followed it. and especially
would he not follow it now. But Mr. C personal
relations must of course follow hi political relations.
The Senator, had now got the whole story, and .Mr.
C. trusted it would be satisfactory in regard to the
rumvrs to which he had alluded.
Mr C. found it impossible to move without giving
occasion to accusations of changing hisgrounds If
he was against the Chief Magistrate, he was charged
with changing his opinions. If he was in favor of
him he wathen accused of changing his political rc
la ions. But he had not changed at all ; he stood
now where he had always stood, and that was on the
unchangeable purpose to tiring back the Government
to its original simplicity and economy. He, with oth
ers, bad succeeded in expunging the whole of tnc Se
nator's American System, and other extravaganCes.so
as to give the Government a chance of taking a fresh
start. And it gave Mr. C. pleasure to sa ', that :he
best part of the measures of tbe present Chief Magis
trate were approved by Mr. C, and Mr. (J. was hap
py of the opportunity to make these declarations', and
he would stand to them. Nothing should - prevent
Mr C- from supporting a man while he wai politicalr
ly right. The Senator from Kentucky haJ gin the
Government a wrong direction. Mr. C. bad resisted
the proceeding, and he should continue to do so, stand
ing on the ground occupied by Mr Jefferson and
others of his class.
Mr. CtAT said he had understood the Senator as
felicitating himself on the opportunity which had been
now afforded him by Mr. (J. of defining once more his
political position ; and Mr. C. must s iy that he had
now defined it very clearly, and had-apparently given
it a new definition. The Senator now declared that
all the leading measures of the present Administration
had met his approbation and should receive his sup
port. It turned out, then, that the rumor to which
Mr. C. had alluded was true, and that the Senator
from South Carolina might be hereafter regarded as a
supporter of this Administration, since he had declar
ed that all its leading measures were approved by him,
and should have his support.
As to the allusion which the Senator from South
Carolina had made in regard to Mr. C's support of the
head of another Administration, (Mr. Adams) it oc
casioned Mr. C. no pain whatever. It was an old sto
ry, and one which hail long been sunk in b!ivion,
except when the Senator and a few others thought
proper to bring it up. Hut what were the facts of that
easel Mr. C. was then a member of the House of
Representatives, to whom three persons hud been re.
turned, from whom it was the duty of the House to
make a selection for the Presidency. As to one of
those three candidates, he was known to be in an tin
fortunate condition, in which no one sympathized
with him more than did Mr C. Certainly the Sena
tor from South Carolina did not. That gentleman
was therefore out of the question as a candidate for
the Chief Magistracy ; and Mr. C. had consequently
the only alterna ivc of the illustrious individual at the
Hermitage, or of the man who was now distinguished
in the House of Representatives, and who had held
so many public places with honor to himie'f, and ben
efit lo the country. And if there was any truth in
history, the choice which Mr. C then made was pre
cisely the choice which the Senator from South Car
olina had urgod upon his friends. The Scnaior him
self bad declared his preference of Adams to Jackson.
Mr. C made the same choice ; and experience had
approved it from that day to this, and would to ctenity.
History would ratify and approve it. Let the Sena
tor from South Carol. na make any thing out of that
part of Mr. C's public career if he could. Mr. C. de
fied him.
The Senator had alluded to Mr. C. as tho advocate
of compromise Certainly he was This Govern
ment itself, to a great extent, was founded and rested
on compromise. And lo the particular compromise
to which allusion had been made, Mr. C. thought no
man ought to I e more grateful for it than the Sena
tor from South-Carolina. But for that compromise,
Mr. C. was not at all c nifulent that he would have
now had the honor to meet that Senator face to face
in this National Capitol.
The Senator had said that his own posi ion W4s
that of State righ s. Hut what was the character of
this bill? It was a bill to strip seventeen of the
States of their rightful inheritance ; to sell it all f.ir
a mess of pottage ; to surrender it for a trifle a mere
nominal sum. The bill was, in effect, an attempt to
strip and rob seventeen States of this Union of their
property, and assign it over to some eighl or nine of
the States. If this was what the Senator called via
dicatinghe tighls of the States, Mr. C. prayed tiod
to deliver us from all such lights and ail such adv
cates.
Mr. Caiiioux said the Senator from Kentucky cn-
Hirely mistook the character of ihe bill Ii was ?not
only a State rights measure, but was indispensable to
the peace and prosperity of the States, as the only
measure that would well effect the object in view.
Having used the word compromise, Mr. C. felt
bound to refer the Senator to that particular compro
mise4 and the Senator had said in reply, that if any
one should be thankful lo him for that compromise
Mr. Clay. Not to m.?.
Mr. Caihoox. The Senator always claimed to
be the author of that measure, and I am not in the
smallest degree thankful to him for it. I knew he
could not avoid it. I was his master on that occasion,
and I forced it upon him. I wrote heme at that time
half a dozen letters, saying that the Senator would be
obliged to accodo to a compromise. I will now ex
plain all that. The effect of nullification is this: that
when a Stale interposes, the majority must sometimes
yield to the minority. Those who are to have the
Smallest share, of the plunder, in the majority, are sure
to cet away. In the American system, the constitu
ents of the Senator obtained a very small portion.
they were rather of those that were plundered. 'At
the time when Gen. Jackson occasioned the force
;bill, the Senator from Kentucky bad lost-the manu
facturers ; Gen Jackson had supplanted him ; and a
jSenator, not bow present, was also in the way of su
perseding him in that interest. The Senator from
Kentucky was therefore flat on his back, and nothing
would; answer his own purpose but the compromise.
It was. with him either compromise or annihilation.
It was necessary that either he or the American sys
tem should fall. It 'was not my desire to mention
these things, but the Senator went out of his way to
touch on kindred subjects, and I therefore felt'rayself
compelled to make these statements. I have alluded
to my letters. on that occasion: and I predicted in
resenting the donees
lem, on the third day of the session, that tbia ues
on would terminate as it did. .
Sir, I will go further. -1 vielded a good deal in
iat compromise. It was roy. first proposition, that
should go out in 1840, proceeding
ortton for everv year of filieen per cenu
v further. iW nt the session before we nullined in
outh-Caro1ina, I and others said that the questton
iiust be settled. It was saven years whipH I then
axed on for its termination, and it would nave neen
carried in lhataime, but for cerUin circumstances.--In
resanl to all. I vielJed : my colleague (Mr. Preston)
lLrtows why I did it. but I do not choose to state it
here. And I shouIJ now nave said noiumg .'
subject, if the Senator had been silent himself. But
he has no gratitude on my part ; and South-Carolina
owes him no gratitude, He acted under the neces
sity of the case. I. backed by the gallant State which
I represent, compelled the Senator to break down the
system at one decisive blow; and it is my opinion
that it will bring back the Government to its original
principle.
Mr. Clat. I am sorry to be obliged to prolong
this discussion ;, but I made no allusion to compro
mises till it was done by the Senator hlusilf. I made
no reference to the event of 1825, tilt he had made
it ; and I did not, in the most distant manner, allude
to nullification : and it is extraordinary that the Sen
ator himself should have introduced it, especially at a
moment when he is uniting with ihe authors of the
force bill, aud of those measures which put down nul
lification. iThe Senator says I veas flat on my back, and that
he was my master. Sir, I would not own him as my
slave. He my master ! and I compelled by him !
And, as if it were impossible to go far enough in one
paragraph, he refers to certain Miters of his own to
prove that I was Cat on my batik ! and, that I was
not only flat on my back, but another Senator and the
President had robbed me ! I was flat on my back,
and unable to do any thing but what the Senator from
South-Carolina permitted me to do!
Sir, what was the case ! I introduced the com
promise in spite of the opposition of ihe gentleman
who is said to have robbed me of tho manufacturers.
It met his uncompromising opposition. That mea
sure had. on my part, nothing personal in it. But I
saw the condition of the Senator from South-Carolina
and his friend. They had reduced South-Carolina
by that unwise measure (of nullification) to a state of
war ; and I therefore wished to save the effusion of
human blood, and especially the blood of our fellow
citizens. That was one motive with me and another
was a regard for that very interest which the Senator
says I Julped to destroy. I saw that this great in
terest had so got in the power of the Chief Magistrate,
that it was evident that, at the next session of Con
gress, the whole protective system would be swept by
the boad. I therefore desired to give it at least a
le ise of years, and for that purpose, L in concert with,
o hers, brought forward that measure, which was ne
cessary to save that interest from total annihilation.
But to display still further the circumstances in
which the Senator is placed, lie siys, from that very
Jay ( ihe compromise, all obligations were cancelled
that could, on account of it. rest o him, on South
Carolina, and on the South. Sir, what right has he
to speak :n the name of the whole South'? or even of
South Carolina Uself 1 For if history is to be relied
npon, if we rrray judge of the future from the past.the
time will come when the Senator cannot propose lo
be the organ even of the chivalrous aud enlightened
people of South Carolina.
Sir, I am not one of those who arc looking out for
what may Venure" to themselves. My courso is near
ly run; it is so by nature, and so in the progress of
political events. I have nothing to ask of the Senator,
of the South, nor of South Carolina, nor yet of the
country at large. But 1 will go, when 1 do go, or
when I choose to go. into retirement, with the undy
ing conviction that, for a quarter of a century, I have
endeavored to serve and to save the country, faithful
ly and honorably, without a view to my own interest
or my own aggrandizement; and of that delightful
conviction and. consciousness no human being, nor all
mankind can ever deprive me.
MR, RAYNER'S SPEECH.
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
Wishijotos, Dec. 18.
The pending question being on a resolution that the
commissioned members from the State of New Jersey
are not entitled to be sv om as members of the House :
Mr. Ratxeb said he had not intended to have taken
any part in this debate. Having but lately taken his
seat upon that floor, he had hoped that nothing would
have transpired to change the resolution which hi had
formed that of being a listener instead of a talker in
this controversy. I am well aware (said Mr. R.) that
this is no place,-neither is this any time for apologies,
We all meet here with equal privileges and under
equal responsibilities, and one has as much right to ex
press his views here as another. But being a new
member here, and-in the presence of what ought to, be
the congregated wisdom of the nation; and feeling
that diffidence which must necessarily result from such
a position, I .will claim it as one of my rights on this
floor, to offer an apology for the remarks which I de
sign to make ; and that apology is, that if I say noth
ing which may be worth the attention of this House, I
shall only be following the example which has been
set me by several others. For, m the scope of this de
bate, the discussion has not been confined to those on
ly, who have approached it with calmness and discre
tion ; but in the political battle which has been fight
ing here for the last two -weeks, soldiers of every grade
hive entered the lists, from the hardened veteran to
the raw recruit from those who have wielded the
sword and the battle-axe, to those who have contended
with bulrushes and straws. And besides, the great
principle at stake in this matter, and the important
consequences likely to grow out ot its decision, admon
ish every one who feels an interest in it, to speak out
fully, freely, and frankly in regard to it. And when
it is home in mind, that the rights and privileges of a
sovereign State are involved in the decision of this
question, I insist that it behooves every State to speak
out through a portion of her representation on this
floor, and to enter her protest against the attempt which
is making to disfranchise New Jersey.
Sir, disguise this matter as you may, distort it as you
please, still the real question is, whether the Constitu
tion and the laws, or violence and brute force, are here
after to prevail in the organization of this House and
the legislation of this country. What sort of a specta
cle do we exhibit to the people of this country 1 For
better than two weeks have we been here, unorganized,
in disorder and confusion, and the majesty of this Hall
violated by the presence of men who have no more
right to a seat on this floor than had the fish-women
of Paris in the National Assembly during the excesses
of the French Revolution. Sir, the eyes of an anxious,
an excited, and an indignant People are upon us ; an
awful responsibility rests somewhere, and I wish it to
rest where it properly belongs. I do not hold the
Clerk responsible, but those who advised him. I do
not attach to his course that importance which his been
assumed in this debate. He is nothing more han a
ministerial officer, and his dicta are only binding so far
as they reflect, and are in accordance with, the views
of a majority here. What he says, or what he does,
is authoritative so far only as it meets with the sanc
tion, either express orgimplied, of the body, whose offi
cer he is. He canriSt make or unmake members of
Congress, by his willingness to call the names of some,
or his refusal to call the names of others. And altho'
we cannot but be indignant at the dogged obstinacy
and party devotion which he has evinced, still I think
.entirely too much importance has been attributed to his
sfOnduct, when it is recollected that he is only the mere
insrrument tnrougn which this act of party tyranny is
attempted to be perpetrated upon us. Suppose that
the Clerk, after calling the name of Mr. Randolph, had
proceeded to call the names of the other regularly com
missioned members from New Jersey, think you he
would not have been interrupted, and objection made
to those gentlemen's names being inscribed on the roll?
If the Clerk had done his duty, think you that those
gentlemen would have been permitted, without objec
tion, to vote in the organization of this House 1 and to
It will be recollected that the contesting gentlemen
from New Jersey marked their names at, ajad occupied
seats in the Hall without obtaining permission, during
the discussion on this question.
i. u v,nirrt hv the4 Constitution, pre
paratbry to their taking their seats as members of this!
House I suppose, wnen iue w",.rrrr
required, to take the course which he did- he had re
plied, " Gentlemen, 1 am the officer of the House of
Representatives, and not the mere tool of a party; I
have taken an oath faithfully to perform my duty ; one
portion of that duty is to make out ana cau
names of the members elect ori the first day of the as
sembling of Congress ; the duty whicn 1 owe my gan
try, and the oath I have taken, prevent my compliance
with your demand." I say, suppose this had been the
manly and noble response of the Clerk, when required
to do as he did, think you this scene would have taien
place 1 No one who has been anobserver of the party
organization wmcn exists nere, we uitmuuu r-j
leaders, and the inflexible determination which exists
to carry their point at all hazards, can for a moment
doubt upon the subject. The course of the Clerk only
presented an issue a moment sooner, which would
have been presented, even if he h ad performed his du
ty as a faithful officer. And as soon as objection had
been made, discussion would have ensued, and after
discussion, as soon as it had been necessary to test the
sense of the members upon any distinct proposition,
the same question would have arisen which has given
us all this dirr."ulty, viz. who should be entitled to vote?
So, no matter what course had been pursued Dy mc
Clerk, " to this complexion it would come at last."
Whv. reallv. sir. from the debates which have taken
place here, one would suppose that all this storm had
been raised by the Clerk, and that he had the power to
allay it whenever it suited his good: pleasure. If one
unacquainted with our Government, and uninterested
in our institutions, had heard the pathetic and eloquent
appeals which have been made to the Clerk to proceed
in his dutv. he would have supposed that the Clerk,
from his elevation there, was as omnipotent ia this Hall
as Jupiter on Olympus, and that upon his nod hung
not only the future existence of this body, but the des
tinies offthis nation. No such thing, sir ; it is not the
mere call of the Clerk that constitutes the person called
an integral portion of this House; but it is the tacit
acquiescence of the other members present, in recogni
singr as'a fellow-member, him who presents himself
clothed with an authority as potent as theirs, which re
cognition they are bound in. duty as well as courtesy
to give.
I have made these remarks for the purpose of pre
senting the point which I wish to make that the blame
should attach to those who have only used the Clerk
as a mere instrument, for the purpose of screening
themselves from responsibility. One thing is certain,
we shall be arraigned before the great tribunal of public
opinion ; and I wish it now to be distinctly understood
that it is not the Clerk, but a band of partisans on this
floor, who have prevented the organization of this
House and kept it in an uproar and excitement for
fourteen days. Yes, sir, I call upon this House, and
upon the people of this country, to bear witness, that
while we-and when I say we, I mean the friends of
the Constitutioifand the laws--have been struggling
and striving to organize this House, according to the
requirements of that Constitution and those laws, we
have been thwarted in our every attempt and frustrated
in every movement, because we will not agree to de
part from that course which is sanctioned by the Con
stitution, and hallowed by iimmemorial usage.
The fourth section of the first article of the Consti
tution declares that " the tunes, places, and manner of
holding elections for Senators and Representatives shall
be, prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof;
but the Congress may, at any time, by law, make or
alter such regulations, except as to the places of choo
sing Senators." Here the Constitution has entrusted
the entire regulation of the elections in each State to
the Legislatures thereof, until otherwise ordered by Con
gress ; and Congress never having passed any law on
the subject, the matter rests under the control of the
States. , Well, who made that Constitution ? The
people of the United States, in their character as States,
each State acting and deciding for itself. Thefieople
of New Jersey in the adoption of that Constitution,
which is a part of their fundamental law, entrusted to
their Legislature the enactment of all laws and regula
tions touching the elections in that State. In pursu
ance of that authority, the Legislature of New Jersey,
a body which also emanated from the people, passed a
law in 1807, (here Mr. R. read from the law of New
Jersey,) which after requiring the clerks of the several
counties " to make one list of all the candidates voted
for," in their respective counties as Representatives
from-that State in the Congress of the United States,
" together with the number of votes received for each
of them," which' they shall "transmit" " to the Gov
ernor" " within seven days thereafter," goes on to de
clare, in the fifth section, that " the Governor, or per
son administering the Government of this State, shall,
within five days after receiving the said list, lay the
same before a Privy Council, to be by him summoned
for that purpose, and after counting up the whole num
her of votes from the several counties for each candi
date, the said Governor, 'or person administering the
Government, and Privy Council, shall determine" "the
six persons who have tho greatest number of votes from
the whole St :te for Representatives in the Congress of
the United States ; which six persons, the Governor,
or person administering the Government, shall forth
with commission, under the great seal of the State, to
represent this State in the Congress of the United
States." Here, then, the People of New Jersey, thro'
their Legislature, in pursuance of a right guarantied
by the Constitution, have pointed out the mode through
which their will is to be known in regard to those who
are to represent them on this floor. They cannot all
come here, and say to you in person, whom they wish
Lto represent them here, but they declare to you, through
their organic law, that those who present themselves
with the commission of the Governor, certified under
the great seal of the State, are they whom they wish
to represent their rights, their interests, and their wishes
here. This 13 a high and important trust, which they
have confided to their Governor, on his own 'responsi
bility ; and,- whether he abuses that trust or not, is a
question into which we cannot inquire until we are a
tribunal competent to decide which we are not, until
we are constitutionally organized, and have had the
evidence on both sides of the question. And, let it be
borne in mind, that the States of this Union, in the
adoption of the Federal Constitution which guaran
ties to each State the regulations of its own elections
have pledged themselves, each to the other, and all
to each, that those credentials which each may have
declared to be the evidence of its choice, shall be faith
fully and implicitly respected by all the others. Well,
have the members from New Jersey exhibited such
credentials 1 We have heard their commissions read
from the Clerk's table; and it is unnecessary to insist
that they are in due form as required by law, for that
is admitted on all hands.
But it is not only in conformity with the Constitu
tion and the law that those members having the regu
lar certificates should take their seats here, as a matter
of right, and assist in the organization of the Houser
but it is also in conformity with that established usage,
which has, become a law of Parliament, and which has
always prevailed from the origin, of the Government
down to the present time. It has been the invariable
usage, not only in the Congress of the United States,
but in the Legislatures of all the States ; and although
gentlemen on the other side have been called on again
and again to cite a single instance in the history of
American legislation where, a different cours; has been
pursued, yet no 6uch case has been mentioned. The
case mentioned by the honorable gentleman from Vir-'
ginia (Mr. Rives) is not a case in point, for there both
the claimants held certificates, which were valid ac
cording to the law of that State one being signed by
the Sheriff, and the other by the deputy Sheriff, where
as in the case before us hp one will pretend that Messrs.
Dickerson, Vroom, and others have exhibited anv evi
dence' of election which is recognized by the laws of
ixew Jersey. ine case ot Moore and Letcher has
been alluded to, but that furnishes no precedent which
i applicable to this case; for it is established, as well
by the history of that case, as bv the repeated declara
tions of gentlemen during this debate, who are con-.
versant with ail the facts connected with it, that the
certificate of Moore was defective on its very face, and
not in conformity with the law of Kentucky. Moore's
certificate was defective by the admission of his friends;
the certificates of the gentlemen from New Jersey,
Messrs. Aycrigg, Halsted, and others, are made out ac
cording to law, by the admission of their enemies.
That is just the difference between the two cases.
And, what is passing strange, and only to be account
ed fdr from the rabid influence of party, some of
verv men who are no-wH rnnat. nmmmar,) : i ,. "i I
j - 1 in leading.!.-
crusade against the rights of New Jersey, (as has u"
-i - j an
nKwn hv a rateranej' tn thoir nwuh.. i
1 - j r- j men insists
that you-could not go behind the return before or
zation, but that the certificate of election gave the hl'
er a prima faeit title to his seat . The principe ;
sound now as it was then. It is a principle "mv,2 ?
common with all our ideas of free legislation, we
rowed from England, where it has been the law of p0'"
liament ever since the rights and privileges oft?
House of Commons have been placed beyond thee
trol of the Crown ever since that House ha3 be?n
depository of the rights and freedom of the citizen
The authority read to us the other day by the hono
Me gentleman from Pennsylvania (Mr. Biddle) p
this matter beyond controversy. I have that author
now before me, and, with the permission of the H0
I will read it again, a3 it ought to be conclusive uiyJtj
all who acknowledge the force of precedent and 4v
I read from Jacobs's Law Dictionary, unlertffe heaii
of" Parliament," voL 5, page 79 :
" If two or more sets oi electors make each a return
of a diflferent member, (which is called a double, p f,
tion,) that return only which the returning ofRbcr;
whom the sheriff's precept was directed, haspd
and sealed, is good, and the member by him return?
shall sit Aintil displaced by petition."
. In reading further, I find, on the same page, the fol.
lowing:
" In the year 1640 it was ordered, thai when sonw
are returned by the sheriff, or such other officer as hy
law hath power to return, and others returned bv no
vate hands, in such case those returned by the sheri?"
shall sit until the election is quashed by the House."
In the case before us the certificate of the SecreUrt
of the State of New Jersey, exhibited on behalf of
Messrs. Dickerson and othcrs, is, as it were, by private
hands he is not known to the law so far as rr;-
the issuing of certificates of election ; and his certificaif
in the absence of any provision by law, is entitled t,i
no more authority than the letter of a private gentleman.
But I have another authority, which was pointed out
to me by a friend this morning, and which is more eon
elusive, if possible, than either of those I have read. I
read from Lex ParUamtntaria, page 229 :
" If a sheriff shall return one for Knight of the Sluri
who was unduly or not at all elected, yet he that is re
turned remains a member of;the House till his election
be declared void,"
t
Now will any one attempt to evade these authori
ties, by . saying that they are English precedents, and
therefore not applicable to our country. Sir, I have
heard of some pettifoggers who, after hearing cited k
the opposite counsel an authority which they could not
controvert, attempt to delude an ignorant jury bv tell
ing them that it was an authority from England, e
country where they had a King, and not applicable t
a free country; and that in rendering their verdict thev
ought not to recognise its validity. Will any one use
that argument here ? I challenge any member on thii
floor to rise in his place, and stake his reputation, ei
ther for intelligence or candour, by saying that thes?
authorities are not binding upon ls because they are
English precedents. Will any one do it? No one.
will for every one here ought toTcnow, if lie does not,
that the parliamentary law of England, whenever ap.
plicable to the nature of our Government, has always
been recognised by the jurists ,of our country as enti
tled to the same respect arid possessing the same au
thority as the common law; which was the national in
heritance we received from our fatherland, and which,
in fact, is the common source of all our free institutions-
If, then, the members from New Jersey produce the
credentials which the Legislature of their State his
provided by law, and if that provision of their Lesrisla
ture is in pursuance of a right guarantied by the Con
stitution of the United States, ivhy will this House re
fuse them a participation in all the rights and privile
ges, as well those which are incident to organization
as to legislation afterwards 1 jlf it has been the estab
lished usage, from the origin jof the Government, to
admit to their seats those having the certificates of elec
tion required by law, why will Vou now; for the first
time, violate this settled principle, and innovate upon
a practice which has become the parlimentary law of
all free legislation? But, sirj; how have the authorities
which have been adduced, and the arguments which
have been made, in defence of the Constitution and the
laws, been met on this occasion ? Hive they been re
ceived and been replied to with courtesy and candour!
No, sir. Gentlemen, after having received authorities
which they could not controvert, and arguments which
they could not answer, have 'attempted to evade them
by sneering and ridicule. , They tell us they will not
be fettered hy precedent, or trammelled by the form
and technicalities of the law. And I, for one, was sor
ry to hear that doctrine avowed on this floor. I thint:
it .must be the first time that that destructive, jacobini
cal principle has been promulgated in this Hall. I was
aware that thai doctrine had its advocates among the
wretched rabble that infest our Northern cities; hut
never did I expecJTto see the day when an American
Representative would openly avow it on this floor.
The avowal of such a doctrine I consider to be an out
rage upon the sanetity of this Hall. Yes, sir, this Hall,
which was consecrated to freedom ; which was design
ed as an ark to preserve inviolate the Constitution, amid
the deluge of political strife which is sweeping over the
land ; this Half, which was expressly intended to per
petuate the power and majestyjf the law, has been
desecrated yes, desecrated bv the avowal of doc
trines which, if carried fully out into practice, would
not only sap the foundations of our free institutions, but j
would, in its levelling career, raze to the ground the
fair fabric under whose dome we are now assembled.
Yes, I repeat it, and I call upon the American People
to beware, that their institutions are in danger, when
it is openly declared on this floor that the forms and
technicalities of the law are not to be regarded when
they interpose an obstacle between a majority here and
the attainment of a, favorite object. And this declara
tion is the more alarming when it is recollected that it
comes ex cathedra ; that it is made by one who ha
been pointed out to me as the leader of his party in this
House, (Mr. Vanderpoel, of N. Y.;) and who, I must
say, has indulged in a strain of denunciation and.slang
that ought not to have been" permitted by the senior
members of - this House. WThy, what are those tech
nical rules and useless forms of which the gentleman
from New York has spoken t They are, so far as re
gards all the purposes for which they were daeimc-d.
the supreme law of the land. What are your rules of
order for your govemmant here 1 They are the most
technical of all technicalities ; and yet they speak the
commanding-language of the law, and are as impera
tive and binding in their nature, and as much entitled
to respect, as though "you"1 kept an army t your door
ready to enforce them. What lends the sanction of
majesty to our courts of Jaw ? It is the formal and
technical manner in which justice is administered.
What invests the constable's staff with a power as ter
rible as the tyrant's sword t It is a mere technical
procedure of a few moments in compliance with the
forms of law. But, says the gentleman from New York,
in the fury of his party zeal, the' forms and quibbles of
the law are not to be regarded when the rightrof the
People are in danger. Now, it is absurd, it is para
doxical, to talk about the rights of the People conflict
ing with a law which they themselves have passed, in
pursuance of a right which they have reserved to them
selves in the Constitution i for it ia the object of the
Constitution to define those rights, and of the law to
enforce them. If, then, the gentleman from New York
is sucha friend to popular rights and to the People of
New Jersey, let hira prove that his professions are sin
cere by aiding to.carry into operation the laws which
the People of that State have passed for the protection
of their rights. Now, I u nderstand thegentleman from
New York is himself a lawyer ; and is it possible that
he, who belongs to a profession that has, in all ages,
stood up for the lights and sanctity of the law against
the encroachments of those in authority a profession
that has, in all ages, included in its numbers the guar
dians and protectors of liberty, and the defenders of the
rights of man ; is it possible, I say, that he will now
become the derider and contemner of that very law for
whose omnipotent power he is daily in the habit of con
tending f
But, says the gentleman, my. object is to take care
of the People's rights, and I wilLnot be arrested by the
forms and technicalities of the law. Now, 6ir, I am
not to be deluded by this cry about the People and the
People's rights. As to all the slang which we" have
heard upon that subject, I look' "upon it as too con
temptiblo for notice. It has always been the languago