THE TAR HEEL
Thursday, August 7, 1969
Jones Reaffirms Position
Page 2
University Need
Editor's note: The following
is an abridged interview by Tar
Heel columnist John Agar with
UNC Assistant to the Chancellor
Claiborne Jones.
Agar: Dr. Jones, you recently
deplored the lack of communi
cation in last Spring's strike. Has
communication improved since
then?
Jones: Yes, I think so.
Agar: How do you account,
then, for the contradictory in
formation which has been ema
nating from Saga?
Jones: I really don't know
anything about this, so I'm
afraid I can't help you. This is a
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Saga matter.
Agar: One professor has re
cently said, "It's hard to find
out what (O'Brien) is talking a
bout. He's very adept at confus
ing you." Can we assume that
your office and O'Brien have
been in communication. (Jones:
Yes.) And you know what he's
talking about.
Jones: No, I don't say we
necessarily know what he's
"talking about." We have been
in contact with Saga, but have
not followed every development
that's come up.
Agar: Your letter to Dr. Gas
kin stated that the workers'
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"contract does not (and of
course could not) require Saga
to retain its employees for any
specified period of time ..."
Why wasn't this made clear in
May?
Jones: I have no idea. I was
not in Chapel Hill at the time.
Agar: Well, can you account
for the fact that everyone, ex
cept your office and O'Brien,
seems to believe that the Univer
sity committed itself to guaran
tee the workers' jobs?
Jones: No, I cannot. I can on
ly point out that there were no
agreements made at the time the
strike was settled concerning lay
offs. Agar: Then how was the
strike settled?
Jones: It was settled when
Gov. Scott authorized a pay
raise to $1.80 hour retroactive
to April 1, in anticipation that
the raise would be approved by
the Assembly as of Julv 1. That
ended the strike.
Agar: There was no further
agreement?
Jones: No.
Agar: J. LeVonne Chambers,
the workers' counsel has accused
Suttons Drug
the University of bad faith re
garding layoffs. Chambers
should have been in on all deal
ings (Jones: Chambers had no
part of our negotiations with
Saga.) dealings with the work
ers. Apparently he thinks there
was an agreement concerning job
security. Could you account for
that?
Jones: I'm sure I can't. Let's be
clear about counsel. Mr.
Chambers' firm is reputed (Agar:
reputed?) yes to represent
some of the workers. I don't
know which ones or how many.
Mr. Chambers therefore deals, le
gally and ethically, with the Uni
versity's legal representative, the
State Attorney General, and not
with individual Universities. So
we have had no dealings with
him.
Agar: Your letter to Dr. Gas
kin specified that Saga's contract
included its "agreement ... to
offer employment at the time of
change-over" to production work
ers then on the payroll. Could
people have interpreted this pro
vision as meaning no lay-offs?
Jones: I don't know. Any
thing is possible, surely.
Agar: Usually, when manage
ment changes hands, there are
two means of reducing a work
force: immediate lay-offs or fail
ure to replace natural attrition.
Saga, however, retained its wdrk
ers until the situation cooled,
and then started letting them
You're aware, of
course, that this is nothing new
with Saga. Slack season lay-offs,
unfortunately, have long been a
University practice.
Agar: Saga was advertising for
student help while it was laying
off full-timers. So I don't think
this is just a slack season pheno
menon. (Jones: Perhaps.) Is it
possible that Saga's conduct in
the lay-offs has been intention
ally deceptive?
Jones: I wouldn't want to
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make a judgment until I had
definite proof.
Agar: Well, about the only
definite proof of "dishonest in
tentions" you'd get would be an
admission of them, and I don't
think you can expect that
(Jones: No, I don't think so.)
Well, lacking that, would you be
inclined to say that there is at
least good reason to suspect Saga
of some hanky-panky in this
matter?
Jones: I wouldn't want to im
pugn anyone's honesty without
good reason.
Agar: Your letter to Dr. Gas
kin says that the University "of
course could not" control Saga's
employment practices. Yet, the
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