Newspapers / The Raleigh Minerva (Raleigh, … / Dec. 6, 1810, edition 1 / Page 2
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":v--. jf:;,--, fi f' 4- i -s- h a . y ' -V-... 4 V"a matter i surprise ui... .w.-.v.- j""1" Jno should be, made to dp it a ay. , -They 0 V " t hre fbr, lulled tmrBer-if they could-net TX' Wddle with I V. teek ltlsimendiiisEBt.lfn .fi existed, Vinci a stalking horse stared tfiem w the; face, Jwere ' V: 'they t continue & becausoihvrsihad long onc i' idem i they wen; to hold this lan. ;" V-uage to cir;c6nsiU(isa;a Jhey wouWsay You . t ? 5 are ptrsons, to ;repr;serit us; : kI:; ; lie yentureuio .wv5 vvv a r ,rrv U4 1 0f money1 were annually; wjaaiideiea away Upon gislature give more )re celebritv to a man. as their I out of lew. iThe (tentttmah from WillcesV (Gefl. servant, when his doctrines would poison the whole f W)' had said tliai the; resolution before' the iouse family ! In doing this "hey certainly- would hot effect their wishewwVfc ' w"vB;.n,vc9iiyu. naming in rimrog; uyns UVfeal vaue;' He WMerefojwwiibghat a committee Should , he apptewhouUpv port to thehousthe, reul, of their deliberations ; but he; Would not giveyupithe rightof appoiittnient ta any roan, The majority should always have the mar they, wished j : and if they thought proper to redfice. the salary, he' would not" obj.ct if it .was Cund to be too great. Havine said this,- he would ..: ' j ... it i i i i r. . . n ' vfc fate'? 'hola-;wb.etr -it wire not his desultory way, and apologised for the lime ; worthy, "of rcdy'fhie be?t way :to ho. this would he had occupied. If he had said any thing p-r I fuVV todeteVjnine whai the business was vortb, and' sunal, he regretted it; but he made it a rule to no persfTs were so proper to do this, as the print- rihtmaelve8 wucuvuif nw un luiwpw , v. aifs work, which they might have to do, they ' . . . m nr-iialn its worth with nre- ' ;. Vision i-but if they were to do U merely to hx a - .larvAtheVvrnight bay more than tt was worth. 1 1 , IT; ii I; I - or they might say less, vv nen s man was muis ing a proposUSou by ;whish he himscll waa to be ' :V. ' bound, 4ie would sif down cooly and endeavor to 'Mcettaittv'rcisc:um; for , which it could be J t i one, and he could Regulate li offer by that sutu, It jh thought it titccssary to obtain any n.lor V Ration vn ;ihe suct,; bev.w6uid agree to the I l tmeQdtae&t of4lw g-iciiBW from Otange, (Mr. $ ; j, Mebane.) H? (aa jaot, opposed o to euiry at ,:C antinie. 'But he tiougttftl -contemplated C V ! tke amendment a " '. ' V. . ? "-v.- fi--tl-WAorn saPk that at the first, blush ol 4 esahitioh-.it appeared Ho be eiUiiely inbrtensiVt, - 1 h.,t LitUe discernment wouia q.scover us ooicti, "ulthough itwaa welt; rapped up. On this qaes ' tioh, m come at the truth, it would be necessary .to take -a very extensive view of he manner in -which the printing business had been conducted for several years, and also to enquire when the ; new discovery was madpt. that the printer received v an, enormous salary for' his services. VV hen he was contending with professionid characters, he was sensible of the disadvantages he hbortd un- . der. ; He would not be able to meet aa meir in. s but be trusted to the' goodness of his i f ...... gi-ounn. ' . , - The? gentleman frpm Martin, (Mr. Slade) had r "said that thi was a sharaelul' waste of public mo- iney.' When was it discovered that this was a sniraciui "-" - . . . iir .i II I c vQ5 I No. In vb t..gtQ. was n wnen riuuge ot lioytan were th2 printers ? No. Iu the year '8i the salary of the printer was 500, and an al lowabce for extra printingi of 100 during the' session, in the salary was made 600, with .an alto wance for extra printing. There were at that time about 1 1 00 copies ol the laws pri.ated, and Ihe printers had only to send them to the ; clerks of the. superior courts. Now there are 3270 printed. ; It was not then presumed that the alarv was too hiuh. In 1798, Mr. Hall become ii'. a candklatexand displaced Mr. Hodge. At this ,' time nothing was said about .the salary being 'too 'T' -hielw!!!, 1799 Hodge aod i.Boylan were elected; and instead of saying it was too high, they prayed IOr an increase U aaiary. wua mm, iiuLiniig was ?1d about waste. .But before this tinc, party htdritiwad. ' Thia ,'wai the cause ol the j '-' ' change whiih wa made in the public printer ; anu ' then it was tounci marine saitry was too nign. t ,v hen a Dei son was elected., whose politics were V objected fo, then it was ,acy was made, that the ' '. salary was tot highr1 Ihe laws had then encreas ! ed from 1 100 to ,2000. Still the out cry against the salary came from the very man, -who had be fore Drofited bv the increase of salary. He-men- j , tinned this,to,shcw that -savijng was not the object ' of thelntrbduction of the resolution ; but because ' a man was in officc whose politics were in favor V' . of the country. And, because a person comes I forward and offers to da the business for less) an. ' " v outCryis raised against the extravagance-of the ? salary. It was termed a shameful waste of public ' money and ha I been resounded by a certain des V. criptioti of..pciotii " for"everal years -: 'Centiemen j complained, that somuch noise was. made-about P printing,, which was a'mere mechanical Vusiriess. ' I Butj woulo they be willing, if "about to build a I ' ' , ' house', to employ.a perbon, who like Sampson, - Would be' llkxly to bring it over his own head and I V;' 'that of the; family l:yf rf-fr;',-- lr - The gentlemen who opposed the amendment, U 'differed in ont particular. One said that every l - one was a competent judge of jthe value of printing; and the otner saia inai no one oui uic prinrers were competent judges. The arguments used by t h, these tco gen'itmen were not reconcileame ; they wertf completely at variance'; He was the same I man' now, that he was in '9, when the subject ' ( -i-was under consideration ; aftd he would, never consent to give it up to any individual to appoint ; i ' "ihVsj at that, or 'tother man. f. . We were unfortunite in this respect, that there V "V Was a party in this country, and hy; that party, H , which wa. completely at variance with the ac-mi-,U nntMiont --was' troWTirtt- rsohftiHji -broqght ' . , ... . .. r forward They wouia npnoniy sirute at ine puo- lie pnntef,i but against every 0n5.wnu .wns in ia tour of the present; administration of government He supposed they considered their measures ,as best calculated to promote the good of the federal (-'" ', party, ana ne -con&iucicu Miciii nust wen m i 'U other respesBui it was a maxim in republican .i . r- governments, that majorittts ought to govern, and t. '" M was nbt for giving the power out of his own - hands. And when be looked at a late publication, Yv in which it waaasserted, V. jhat the wise and good were on one side of me riuest!on the wicked mis- taken on the other' no wonder gentlemen would 'J' -, make wry faces,' which he could discover in the ' 'J'jiouse-fwhen be &und persons declaring.rthat , JtbejT Would endeavor toTemove . the. shame - and -;' misery which, the United States have ' suffered v ; from asadcataoguec4'error,lossarul disgmcie,, , ana inat iney. were,. iiiteiy woe ne lowcsi oiauers for the public "printing, v he felt jnorp unwilling ; tj T" give up the power) ' he thought it caution enough ,to every one,' who wished to rtaia the office at its proper value-not m put it out of the -power of the legislature to elect the person. who was to sue speak what he thuught Mr. iiladu was sirry he had to make any obser vations, which woulrl assist in dragging in the spirit of 'party, as it were, by" the neck and heels The gentleman from YVihces, (Gen. Welburn) hat! made use of the term Party ,jn order to inJuce 1.1 ' ' He4)elieved that the', press had a very great ih P.'itnce on public aentinient and; Would ihe lc the house m support. a nun whwsc political opinions they liked, ior hmisvlt, he believed that the friends of ihe resolution had nothing tno:e in view than- the interest of ti e public. It was not that Mr. Galea or Mr. Boylan should receive 1500 dollars j nor 'that a man in Richmond or' a man in Philadelphia should receive it. Bui it was th u, as servants of the public, they should discharge their trust as duty and hosty-requiiiedi'o uA-- a metaphor, he could have Wished the members of the hb iie had drank of the waters ofLethe, before this subject1 had been entered upon, If cy could have taigotton what had passed, he tion, wuld have existed. He could not conceive how gentlemen could insist on-making it a party question,'&tdess it were from the effects of a too heated imagmaTten. I ho gentleman Irom Wilkes, (Gen.YVelbovn) enquired with emphasis ; when this important discovery was made. It was not, he said, in)95 or '96, but in 1804. Butoes he reflect upon the difference between the situation of the presses at that time and what it is now i The difference was great. V hen Mr. Hodge was em ployed, his establishment was at Halif.tx, he was therefore under the necessity of removing a press to Raleigh, with part of his types and the work men, whom he had to board at a high rate, and had to rent a house for the businees. Perhaps lie was t he only man who could have done it J for there vere then no printers in Rait iglw and prbabiy only one or two in the state ; but in 1 604, and at the present time, there were established p,,initr here whocculd do the business withou' muJi ail ditional expence: Doing this woufd not prevent them from inculcating what political creed they pleased. There was no magic art in the printing of the public laws. It was immaterial who print ed them. One might do it as well as another. If il were necessary for printers to keep alive party animosities, let thos. printers doit, whom lie public p.ad for the support of their presses. As' to. priming- the laws and journals of North Carolina, it was immaterial whether it was done !y a federalist or a republican. It excited his surprise and astonishment to hear he gentleman from Wilkes say, that it was ne cessary to employ a person of particular political principles. Perhaps they would" hereafter ton tend that their wood cutter ought to have a cer tain poUtical creed. He would make but afew further remarks- As to the observation of the gentleman, that no man would employ another, to build a house, who, like Sampson might throw it down and destroy himself and family, he would only answer it bv saying, that it was a strange position, an out of the . way comparison- The men who undertake the printing, must be per sons who were qualified ; and if they should fail in their contract, they would forfeit their bonds, and be made to pay thepena!ty. What security had they for their faithful discharge of the busi nessfromlhe Lofncejr LpfJState 1 The Legislature elected him, and relied on his doing his duly! and should he neglect its performance, they could only have recourse to his bond as a remedy. If they employed any other person they wouldLhave the same remedy at hand, by competing him to pay the penalty-. Mr. S. concluded bis remarks,, by saying, that as the object of the amendment seemed to be, a defeat of the original resolution, he was therefore opposed to the former and infavor of the lattei - Gen. Wdborn could not see how the gentleman could compare a wood cutter anda printer. He saw no comparison that couldfe madebetween the two. Would the gentleman eh eavor to fotce this position on the bousethat the office of pub lic printer requiredrno talents ? that it was a mere mechanical -business ? He did not wonder that the ' gentleman was willing to keep party out of v"i.ew. It was a fact that persons would seldom cry out party, until they felt power in their hands, He recollected-the time," when 1 he was in the minority, that he was glad not to cry out party Perhtfpa-this" was .the.;way-.with the gentleman. The friends of the resolution must, have expected that it'would excite party spirit, "and for that rea son he . Was unwilling to' have It brought before the house. The object of the resolution was no doubt to remove ihe present printer.". If the ob ject of gentlemen were economy f lone, he could not see why they should oppose an examination ? Why were they so. much averse, to this I - Could they get no sort of information by the amendment ? Were they so well informed' on .the subject? He believed there were gentlcrvfen in Raleigh, uncon necled with the printers, from whom' information could be derlvetT. ir '. "" f"-'-' . .; :; "The gentleman last up thought it was of no cob- sequence who was public printer. Unfortunately he thought differently. particular, attachment to one printer - more than another. - But he contended that ft would be wrong to appoint a person . who would be always abusing, republicans and ; republican institutiens ; and publishing, the State Gazette it would seem a if he: did this by .authority. It would give his opinions more celebrity and importance. It would (end to mislead the people and . was .well ealcu. latcd to have that effect.' - ,lt. M'.MMan wotjld make a few obsetvations the present question. ' On thwroccason it was intended to excite, "the : spirit? of iarty, larid that it had been brought forward by a member' of a particulafarty i .true, it tifas by. a member of I a particular party, but certainly not of the federal partywbut of llhft-republtcanr-a mw if integrity and principle, the purity of whose' intentions no mab ever did 6r ever could doubt -He trusted suchTemarlf st would .have, no effect upon the house, They ought all to go for nothing. The senate did not come j her6, to legislate ior Mr. Gales, Mr. Boy Ian, or ;any other person. They came to le ¬ gislate for their constituents.,, They boasted of ihei'Fpatrio'isrif, their republicanism, their justice and consistency : and he would ask, every one,' if it was inconsistent with either of these to' consul U economy I Every gentleman Would answer that it was not. The only, great objection tp the reso lution appeared to be, that if it were adopted' and the printing suffered to be" dqne by any other person, than 'he present, it wouId.ppbabIjf-.give -.a JdsKilionfeJpuJilier that objection had been completely answered by the gentleman from Martin laws and journals, could effect. Would the mere' circumstance of execut ing woik for the public raise a printer higher In the estimation of any man? It. was not incon sistent with the dignity of the legislature to let out the public printing to the lowest bidder.? A that theuUrjr paid loojhigh. J ee were appointed to . make enouiri:; be aproper person to-apply to JS. a wai isaid. that the best way Viude ZS1 0ff4t ttto he perion whp would d!u Ef - was not a eorrprt w-.u' li;" thepiriUf prsobsould b found who would doH much less than li I -? llle kfc, toiwatwere,irnv:rlytp5 now and to him it appeared L, disbovery was made; till this time that the! h too tegh.t To obtain .correct, disint ft ni.J wasnottoprocrastinab,, formatiofu - He Wishfit tU 1,1 I appointment of printer in their own W4 f A lftose la live .the. office, to MrffiJ) sonMr Bpylanr or any i body else. yWer.tlieyTtrOMWlCT pointmehtof printer in their own hhAj?n in. The printing of theJ gate it to some other persons," It was Wei J!j certainly have no such how. slow and tardy were , all practice JhiJ s.-. uiiiiiiiu , niiu mc grCa( flltU i ween me; resolution ; and the thls-i-tnaT the one was for er of appoinfn? eepmg VTenceW; similar plan was adopted by congres.'rhere1 sjbould 1 anrr from were many in the house v ho afl mired the acts of Mr. Brickell 5 uiai ine one ;was lor giving away the! ofappointenliepth Wla therefore, vote for keeping it'A.; would, not have spoke, before the house, had he not km .v.. 1 1.. tu. .1.., r r:n,..- 1.: ' .l 1 11 ill uuiiy. J. ic jjriiuwjuaii 11 uiu, tviin.es, nun- uic 4'icDuuii utiurc IIIC IlUUSe, natl he LTtOt foil seif, must approve ot the measures of the gene- j that gentlemen were arguing the Tnerits of ti ral oiu'i-rnmfnt. If then thp rational leo-lslaMirp. Inrio-inal rT-srSlnlrnn: '" "fK nilntlun... r. .';t b" did not think why were the members of this, to be so particu lar? Were the latter to take a more dignified stand than the former? Certainly not. The house could scarcely err in following their exam, pie; and it would be right in some measure, to regulate their conduct by it. It was correct when a man stood in the capacity of a legislator, to consider the case, when he .was acting . for his constituents, as if he were acting for himself: and he believed if gentlemen-were acting for themselves, tfiey would sooner give 900 dollars for a iob of work than 1500 dollars. Then why on Would have been well to bave laid party entirely nt. If then jthe national legislature original resbjotron. The gentleman frpri W-Z the plan derogatory to their digni.y,! had denounced him as being unfriendly t0 ill K-uciai guvcniiHciu, oecause opposed to th . mendraent. lien. Wdborn disclaimecfany"iucj intention M B. had not been able to ilist,! in the resolution a:.y thing r.f a political measurl at all. If he had, it mjght hive induced hin) J taxe a tutterent view t t the question fromM wnicii ne now topic. He looked upon the pjibii printing as a pb of work which there were sevet persons in the place competent to execute. ': was wtll understood that wherever there waicotf petition, it always had a tendency toredoceii r ,.1 tu:. ...11 1. . mice Dl ,;i)ur. 1 ins woma aCCOUIE ill tttnf should they not consult economy as much in measure tor the dillcrence in the rate ofprlntir. their public, as in their private capacity. One (at the present "time, and at former periods, bt! gentlemen had informed the senate, that the pre- reasun ot the price bc i ig lower would p;rm; sent salary to the printer had been paid for several be found in theJ cheaper rate at wbtch'-matew! years, before the discovery was made that it was could be procured. - The rates too were-betteW too great; arm anotner saul he was-not lona dcrstood, and there were several presses, of making innovations on good old practices, were, under the very nnse of the legislature. ! j v hat tnn were they sent here lor 1 1 hey were never knew any thing like a redundancy either sent for very little purpose, if they were not to material or labor to produce a rise in the price; 0 alter any old practices. If the legislature, had. the contrary whenever there was an. influx till persevered in errors for eighteen or twenty years, bor or comrnodity, the prices Would invjuinbl it was high time that they should be raked up and fall corrected, if possible. The position that laws I , A committee was to be appointed to etimiiri a a . ' " " " weie noi to be altered on account ot their long into the value of printing and then it was to sending, was not correct ; because the duty of the legislature wasotten exactly the reverse. But gentlemeu asked,' why not reduce other salaries, and' put them out to the lowest bidder likewise? This was no argument, because the correction must begin some where. Yet the gen tleman from Wilkes did not want to tske the of fiqu from thepre9cnt printer. He did not wish it either. That gentleman had discharged the du ties with ability and integrity; and he-was as willing that Mr. Gales should have the office as any other person ; but he could not consent that any gentleman should have it for more than it was worih. If the question before the house were, what was the real value of the printing, what would be the most correct method of ascer taining that value ? Certainly not by applying to the secretary, the treasurer or any other of the heads of department He would go to the fountain head, to the printers themselves. This was the proper way. tie field it to be a correct position that when iruth was to be sought for, the-shortest way of getting to it was the best. He 'would go to the spring at once Let it be advertised that the public printing was to be let out to the low est bidder, and receive their .proposals, and the just value of tfie work would soon be. ascertained. lie was convinced that the printer, at present re ceived more for the work . than its real value. The business, could be clone in three months. The salary of the-printer was therefore' greater than mat paia 1.0 ,ne judges, i nis aione-wonia con vince him that . it was. too high. The judges did not receive as much tor their services as the public printer, though it required a preparation nf ma ny years to fit them tor their stations. He had heard it asked out of doors, if the office of public printer was let out to the lowest bidder, why nbt let out those 01 the judges likewise ? This did not apply. There was no relevancy in the ques tion to the -case before the house.. The judges were, constitutional othcers. 1 he lives and,proper ty of their fellow citizens were in their hands. They were, and ought to be, for this'reason inde pendent. Similar questions were asked in "rela-. Uono the offices of Secretary of State, the Trea surer, and Comptroller. These officers had also much in their bands, and should be placed in situations above suspicion and temptation. Eve ry officer who received '"a large salary was an im portant officer, anu should therefore be indepen dent. For these reasons he declared himself op posed to the amendment, but in favor ot the re sol ution.. - "'"' . -. . . given to a, particular person ; because gentleme supposed that the politics' ol the pnnter toul give a tone to those of the state. Forli'ups, he boasted of his political opinions t but if be h no better foundation for them than Ihe sentinw ot the public printer, that instant would he rent quish t hem. He, did, not cariWMd the pub priming ; hideed, he was more favorably inclini Gen. Wdboryiy i he had leave, would answer an observation of the gwitle man last up. The gentleman had undertaken to saythal the print ing of the general, government was let out to the lowest bidder. He understood that their nrinting was let out at so much per sheet j and that it was done under the superintendence of the secretary For his part he had no Sf state and the clerks of Ihe two houses. They were responsibl to govcrnment,""for the correct ness of the work. . This was not the case here. The public printer of the Sfate had to prepare the manucript, put stops to. make if read right, insert the marginal notes, index, &c. and had to take upon i himself the whole responsibility., There the printer had nothing but the mere- mechanical part to perform, and was under no responsibility. Gentlemen had said that the office was not impor tant ; and contrary to what he had expected from the-gentieman over the way, who Seemed to have so perfect a knowledge of printing, be had declared towards the political sentiments of Mr. Gales, th to those of the other printers ; f but hk stood M as the agent of three or' four hundred freeholdtf who cared not who executed the business, providi it was well done, and performed utthe cheapa rate. They could riot doubt, but tbit every gel tleman who would put in pi onosab, would be con petent to discharge the duty which be hadunda taken, the resolution proposed to giw out work to a printer, and certainly none other th a printer would be employed. These wfio m authorised to contract, would no doubt reqiiil from him good security. There were seve per wins who conducted prpers at this place with equal ability, who were no doubt well quai fled forthe business jnhen why give one persd 1S00 or 1 600 dollars for what could be ontain. at a less sum. In reasrn,'in justice, and on 1 principles of economv it ought to be -put out the lowest bidder.r-Or thev mieht fix the $ah at 900 dollars and then elect whom they pleasej This was the ground taken by those who orpo the resolution. But there could be nothing mc: faiFlhan to receive proposals.- The printers woa then-sit down' and make a fan calculation, aa be enabled accurately to ascertain what they ctu do the work for. He could never travel oui the rood to suppose that men would do an tnjui to themselves merely for the purpoe pf iW Others. If the mode he had mentioned wouiu adopted, ,true republicanism and true ecoooni would shine forth. The growling nd xontcnul on the subiect would be done away r ana jot would be no more of this bustle and confusion. Mr; , Mebane eriteriMned-no wish .to have i annther. word nn the' subiect. nor WOUlUiWljf1 not the jnUemanJrombmondrnu servation wmcn ne naa maac use i t ud before. He had not said, or at least he 6 not intend to way that he was opposed to tion in any shape. He wished to hate said '" he waa opposed to innovation when w to be c-aintd hv if' He reeretted that ke had r Zr.a-! l : . r u:-..if oil time, to S' sumcieni command 01 umucu ai -r , ear.tl whaf he wished.- nor even tov recoJi vKit- h-lti-Miif.fTi-asked -what was the gre difference' between the friends and tbe -bPI" of the amendment. The latter said uian opposed to the original resolution. were also W h. nrinter's salary; nd W'5B1 to crivf. him' mnre than ''enough Th' ; r ru . i.r.u.A ik An nv such; thing! " th:wMitfi to ri vehTm enough t andtP 1 tlia. nlSrArtimtt . n t Vl 1 ! f lll h ands. Taeobj' . i' 1 iir '.m . ir u:aj so wiui me resolutions wc, u T . not nnsmivi." -- object, and believe we are .u- :nr fn'k lnriff:t liidder tn knn ill. Ktlol.nf fnndf nf chOOSlHg tnC 1 ter - When any coursfe of business had been ai upon for several jears and touna w ' saw no ground fof changing it. ' And waai the great discovery which had been i aru W IUC UU3IIIC39 " " r rt L K-n rnrino- hf nrinfr trio much. Jt s0' . be reduced, but notiyei awajr ; 1 1
The Raleigh Minerva (Raleigh, N.C.)
Standardized title groups preceding, succeeding, and alternate titles together.
Dec. 6, 1810, edition 1
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