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VOL" XXIIIi
i . v: - -
FRIDAY FEBMJARyJll822.
- I
-'v.-A
Mi
-t ' REBATE ?J0N, THE
CONjSNTION QUESTION.
CONTINUED.
"
I.
"1. -
OUSE OF COMMONS
. ; Mr MoBEflBAD savtf, this subject was one of great interest
to the State; and ontthe:ilecisiori"of - which no niah could feel
Indvllerfent It is a question which is calculated to call forth
tliat kind 6t pufilic feeling which is neccssai for the welfare
' of the" country. ;;- f$-; - Ip- ' v";. 4"' C
Mr; M: was sorry to see any thing like party reeling lntro
duceld into this argument He must tell the ntlemanTfrbm
Newbern (Mr. Hawks that he had misunderstood the remark
; ' of the ntremanronSalisbury Y (MrFisher) . when he .said
We. Will Have VUIIveiUlUll y lb was hui uiu lanuat wi nit-
. fwce,-which he used, but ot prediction. , i - .;-,. v , , j
If he could prevail on. his friends from! the -East to attend
dispassionately to a plain statement of facts, he 'should have
nodoubt of convincing them that pur present representation is
unequal and unjust, thougn they : might still doubt ' the
of the proposed amendment. ;r f '
ButthgenUemaiy from' Newbern has endeavored to excite
an alarm in the committee,' which was calculated ' to :pre vent
a fair discussion of the merits of the question. J , j j
.The gentleman from Halifax, (Mr. Alston) had compared
the. situation of ourJ large and small counties to the States of
Kew-York and Rhode-Island, under the General Go vernment.
Mr. explained.- .How are these States represented in
- Congress ? Like the counties in this State in; the; General'
" Assembly V. No, Sir, .the United States are each of tKqm dis
tinct and independent So vereignties. wheirea our counti are
Karked but by, lines changeable at the will of the Legislature.
Congress cannot divide a State; or interfere v with it at all
If. M? hoped, therefore, this comparison iwill pass for nought.
Do we, asked. Mr M. see property, represented in the Ge
neral Government ?! No ; the Seriate Ms" composed of men
represeritingithe sovereignty of the several States. Go then,
to the House of Representatives. ? Is any thing like property
there respected Y No ; nothing but freemen, with , the excep
tion of three-fifthp-of otherpcrsons, whkhlwas a inatter of
compromise with the Southern States at th& time the Cpnsti-
j'tutioni-was fbrmgd-.j'. - -' ' - l; l'-'. ''. : '
r And is f there any;reason, (asked ' Mr. 31.) why property
should ho represented in liis coTemmeni T - If so4iow would
gentlemen have property represenied ? V HoW is the Sejiate at
present composed I Is it;not the representative of the landed
interest of Jhe country ?2 - Is not this a sufficient representa
tion of property ? - Would you have your slaves represented
as in the general government Would you have property
represented iu,both Houses ? J If so, you would put it in the
power of wealth to dispose of the destinies of your, country.
1 . But the gentleman from Newbern says that efferson
and MfV'Madisonr whom he calls the high-pries ts . of; Repub
licanism, JiVej in "Virginia, vhere no person unpossessed of
freehold property is permitted to vote for a representati ve,
yet he says they do not complain, rior are their unrepresented
people less ready to fight the battles of "their country. Sir !
' in' tlie jate contest with Grejit-Britairr we have sejen the sturdy
. yeomanry of Virginia o'rderqi to Norfolk, for her protection ;
we have seen them fall victims to" tlie climate arid to expo
sure p and they now lie mouldering in the dust,f sacrificed
by the laws ofa,country in Which they had no .voice ; sacri
ficed by tho IawsfoC aState in vhich they were legislatively
annihilated. Mr. M. said he admired the character Of Vir
ginia Y he reverenced her sages j ; but he Hoped he should riot
be considered aVa noliticai infidel?' when he told the commit
tee, he shuddered to think, that the poor freeriien of iis State
should ever bo excluded , from the Legislative counci
country, r j: v..;,
J To whom,! ask Mr. M. did this Country beldriff,!
hurst the British fetters and became indeoendent Mt
s of the
it
certam-
r81, vvhidi they now send. ; The Federal population of the S4
iastern counties is .234,100, which entities her to 78 members
only, insteadTqf 102, which she now serids jj
TheFederal populationjpf Wake county entitles her to six
raembersl ; Representation,Hnen upon the Federal principle,
entitles the West to 21 membbrs" more anithe East to 24 less
than they now send into the Legislature, arid Wake to S more
i rGo to the next: priridple of represent
white population and taxation. The taxes of the "whole State
' (exclusive of clerks and auctioneers) is 65735 60. ; Taxes of
: tqe Western counties are 553 1 ,1 84 V f Oi the .Eastern, S32,203
41 j of iVake county, ,S2.34 8 7 Esti mating g35S for each
member J and the Western counties will send 88 : the Eastern
91, and Wake 6.. I : '
T Go to tho next branch of the principle, that of free white
population, to which the oppqsers. of these resolutions have
j the greatest objection, and the; Western part of tlie State, vill
i be entitled to 3JI more members than she has at present and
; the' Eastern nart tb';34:Iess.i ks:-.- k': 'V:- Vv--lr
1 For the total white .population of the State is 419i200.The
I Western counties have 253,235j which, allowing 2;253 persons
to send a member, will erive her 1 12 members. The Eastern
I counties have 1 54,0 14 which vill give to them SS inembers.
4-no wrute population oi vr ase oeing ii,yDi, gives to iier p
members.- ; . , i"-: .-' - ' . ' :., 's:y,.: ;Vr.
, So that upon the pKncipJo: p.f free white population and
taxation combined, the VVestera counties are entitled to 1,00
melnbers, 1 9 more than at pitsent.; The E astern cou n ties,
to T9 , members, which jxvg 3 less than at present. ' W4ke
county, to 5 members instead of 3. " . . .
j Then compound the representation of the Federal popular
tion, free white population and taxation, and; ther Western
counties are entitled to 101 members, 20 more than j at p re
sent, and the Eastern counties will be entitled to 79 members,
23 less than at presents , So that, upon the very princif les
upon which the opponents of the resolutions contend, Jtlie
West evident y t labor under important grievances! , But
wealth is sufficiently represented in the Senate to afford it
self protection. The representation of ourState should be uj on
tlie principle of free white population, requiring certain qual
ifications ip the representatives, and the electors of4n.e
branch of 1 lie Legislature, barely sufficient to protect wealth
; Wealth T fattens upon the necessities; of poverty I it can
Dnoe i ix can corrupt : ana wneneverit snaii nave a predomi
nant weight in our vernnntjniay?:bid ifarewel toshes
boasted freedom of our Republ ic, arid ignomin iously submit to
the-yoke 'of Aristocratic QlaveryJ 3?; 'ip' IT : ' -
The 34 Eastern counties havint a free jvhite population of
154,014, selid to the Legislature. members.: tbe 27iWes-
tern codnties send 81 members, jvhich in the same ratio of
the East represent 122,229, lea vijig a balance of 13024 free
Willie n;i7sun, lygciiicr, :viiii iir;tuo Hcgnjcswi uic ;
ieu.
tlie
Iri-
But he left that tkmntleme w
and ttipre ableto ixe&te it; t
y
IMr. unairman,saiujiro
tion of the coriiimt
man from BocMrilrhariiHr ifcirefia, Viiire ply' ihcH'Sblci r
address: whichihislrieriil roi NewHerrirf (Mrawksliadv
IjJwill eecle :
both!population aridtaLX
had calleil : orithe geritlemeri hC bositioriyo so ew )Hbit !rip j
lis
i-
ion
Iy belonged to the whole Commuriitv: and not to the wealthy iiu.a greai uegree oi justice
al6np - Whvti,pn WM,i h.a.Ia' Ka tUiA nv nU J tncy; will continue to do so. v
Vilee for whrh ' f hv inintl v fnnht 1 onrl in Whirh thnv am ' H Will be to the East, if We
wm v . vr t a v w ma v v ir vr miv j . m w i r
I.. ; ! i i . i - - . " II
arrayed against the negroes of the East, arid unreprescn
Add to this, Sir, the vast extent f the West, the. health of
climate." the territorv acauired from the Indians, the vast
crease of the 'value? of the; lands and wealth of the West, from
internal lmproveraent ; add th&se to the grievances under
w iiiuu we lauur, aim ere. lontr ?nc v v tn uccuuic iuluicx auic,
npi.oniy to patriotism, out to patience itseii, i ;
a When V predict, under these; cireumstances, a Cohven
will be had, can the prophecy le doubted ?
We have now met the call o the gentleman fromnewbern.
Here is our grievance, wh ich vre wish to be" attended to.;
.Nopan would be. more nwillmg, said Mr. 1. than toy
self to touch the Constitution,! if I did not think tlie occasion
Kl : ;TU
proposition before the cbmroitteeo
in tlie lieht of a contest for novvcr.N We do not ask from our
E astern-h reth rcn any thing to which we are hot :entitledi
Nor would; we ask for a correction of this grievance if it were
hot cqnstantly accumulating. iv - For, to do oai Eastern brethren-justice,
we ackrib wletlgei (hey have" wielded their; power
anu mouerauon, anu 11 is . noupu
Mr.rIbelieved, if he could assure himself: that the situa
tion of this State would always remain asf it now is, hc'wquld
not be in' favour of calline: a Convention i: for no gentleman
of. that committee held. the coiistitutioh .more sacred thatv he
did He approached it. with that'awe'. with which Moses ap
proach r his God Awhile .the thunders of Sinai Were playing her aWa 7(
. around him ; he 'toucheii; it with that.diffidencewith- which performed
are ever invaded. It may
expected your ; protection' will not be found in your negroes ;
it yvui uc luuuu in yuurseives, or tn uie ircuui ut iiic vtichu
f for equal rights and privileges our fathers jointly fought,
arid bled ano died, and theii bones nw lie hallowing the soil
for thej frei dom; of vvhich they fell a sacrifice. v-,.'-.
V : Buf giy ttS;these ; jand vvvhen the. demon of desolation sjiall
novW around voiii borders and thb Itraired v : ol ! Hambtbnls
on your . snores,, call on yourui'etnrcn oi tne
tbril Thatgentlein
terri counties, of the StoteuwaWs obne hundred "thQusabd
fiwinon ; mnPA f Han thi'tf' tkifi i n t.fift Kaaf p.rn rnuntiPQ ntiil
that the Eastern have a greater .numberof represtatiyes in, 'C
the lslature thaH the Western
lie concluJies M
Constitutibn ' should ', be altered to ;remely the grievance X;"
This surely, is no answer to thearraerit'bf niyifrichd frbmr
e wpenuf no wever correcinneeonciusion; i uiigut . oe, wcre -t n
we to assume population soieiy s me oasis oi represeniaiion.
heeeded nbt now to say it was irr le vant tibthe question
hby in isue, ' B ut ceitainly, wlien applied to ; tlie basis as-; (l 4
sumed,lo the question in issue, the con
the mark j f it'Jwas lse and iHocalv , f
insisted that population j solely, should be tte tobf prc v.
sentatioii. he confessed he diftered from" him essentially aa to :i: rf;
theoorrectness jof the principle He did believe, that in ajl ; ; V 4
evterhmebts where the stabilitv.of its institutions Vas deem- ' ' N
ed important it-was found nepessairyati
as persons, should be rejiresented in the1 national 'councils. ; '( T '
Tjfiaprotectionf'pr fEV
tives to the formation of political societies; fit jv"bW bf the i" ;f
most indissoluble 1 inks which bound us together' as a society, j .
It - is property which 'mainly, swells the ;State and National 7?v :
iTreasurv; bv its liberal contributions ; without which indeed, v':.
ooin uie piaie anu fine union vMu"yy mw ruiua, .iruiu .'
their own imbecility; If surely, t
edahd itxould
tation Our bwncolpnlalpfe
im thatr nothing; call ;b ;
weight is felt in the 1iatioiia)ohcUsa
ay' natiom, hahavb hadnyrc
berty j has smped itithiheiraprjSs of truthVg Our vejftSjf 6
men t is?npt fa democracy j pure demiacrac j Vppr d id ' jhie U
conceive thaj it was the intention Vf the framera of ! our'Cpn- !
stitutiofi to make it suchJ It wisl impossible 3iatnationi v
as weaitny, as populous, anu as wiueiy e&ienueu usuurs, ever v ;
could exist under such a form dl srovernmeht. -rjt iiand;was" s
1 intended be, a mixed republic
rauty anu irecuom oi us p
foty its stability ad;ution"We npleci firmf I' . :
government as distinct from democracy as anarthy was froni L i .0
despotisms He lioped it woulcl remain:.
ver would cie, when thepBvilegest o .
hldeiy would be Vconforred on every p&ga&nd; jvhb jxmit p
wander aniongsttis, for he ditrustth&: vagra
that wlej might never: be reduced to ther state described J by ai;
sity risti-morelprized.fo
where:every;blackguru
v ?Mf; B. observed, tliat he belieVedNthe , pntIeman(Mr. V 1L
Mbhb himsplfi;was n
whictf this principled of dis
was inaucea,p,peiieveOTjronj-ine
gunienUfIn lisf
bined, as tle PTb tois i
that but or burpwnmoui
leave to" call the! attcntiontlie chimittebb this: pari of the : ' ?i
vie w: th Co mptrbl lera i reportl fells us that Xtuvd: this ' 'it ; - '
islevident, that(excluing;th
county pay n1 $
" What, Mr. M. asked, was the situation pt things at' tlie I , Air. Bx ackle p gjq observed, that he had. not interided'tf
uiuuMvticii uur urescTiL ifwrsiimtinn was innnen r i ne rasr-n w&c niiY,. ri 111 luo ucuaic uoiiucriiuiii uiu reauiuuuin uuiuic
ern part of the Siapd-Av&alhiost the' 'onlV. bai-virhich" was in- Ma ble : ho w important sbever theiiK subject niattcr mfirhttbe 1
nrt:i Ttr-k i- i -. n - m - -n jJ" i ... : . t.x i.t 'l-.-' i...t-t 'ai.i .tlLiii.i-1
urtuiivHi.' ; jjic Tjt nau out iew. settlers ' aui our lanus are j"'?'ivj"aUw!:.ii,ai. uie uiscussiou snuuiu ue itrairiuieu wjuiui
now rising in) value, raiid our population is everyf day increas- very.iiafrovvVHtoit$Ybr
ing while theEastern part o
u"'w - oaiu Lir. - injur h.h avb :in:- uriii. wiiptr in tn i m avcuv uistussiuu . ui liiis, uuti auiuua buuiclw - vii aiiuiiui i
harsh
national
mpre
bsV
he had;given TGrariville to uie Weit&Hehad: considered
v ake as neutral.as she Joii
boasted
remark
the gentle
Mr. M; saidi: he had mader'a few xalculatibns on this sub- lait(cpted,tthat our Western bretftrep 'Shbuldo itddibu
It f I Wllirti ttct ti'nnlil ntta tn(I.nAAm4;ftnA 4-1. Z .. : A 11 TOI thoiNnwnirrh fAtifl tnitnanoa t hai n . . n Altim inir'' .' h v . n n n 1 1
vvi iuiu (.1 m vi ami iiivi Ca9b '.hivj.! ow iiuuut) - uj iiijm
iiirusiuiir upun ua uiis inviaious cpniesi z wiieni wey must oe,4
trh t Vto t bb.-; She ; is as m nrh thft sehsible, that, it will provfei both unnrofitableiand unavailing, i
j uarimg flf the i At est as of the East; He had made bis calciila- ;he ierceived, however, that the debate, : contrary tb mm
ui me a very w iqe ranee, ut? ii. que w
wno opposea meser resoiuuons, pn; me uopr:
population finrludine'slaves' and f
persons of.colpur, is 638;829.7rhetwholfr Federal population K'lMnbt inte
Sff Stateia 556,839.Tfc tionbr attejnp to det
itu. so much 'care, and' delivered with so much con
compiacencyip peueveu xuey were : assauapiet
7.
sum ;ip lact, p ;wjiai we iay on iiiraua were ,
nua1ieven n" or-pWnTprinCiples ::N0w3Ir-Chairfflaiu:-'''
sap!!Vlri' auminoig;tiiat tnenu
c6rS!V
rl or practical e
jisli a febrife iy i $ '
tuimmlsely for' t ' rear : anotheri 4
j whose symmetry orprrtpiris mi
f Whettier it wrenro 1 ' J
i of righti hic
jbplancy anotiier f i
IiicCmiit realm
i uh - paper ? IWbie jro!.; : ;f
jlionbfiiiepSin -I
fiScbfehertenbt be iullf tTusept?dt I v ;
fosb1j5itildSi B i
Hsijia
te'SfeitteiM ;j v
"sliabele-monRte v S
barisltuttioWwill be;dem
! fouttequalMth
tibnaiilibertvilS
'-' i-'Jy r;r-Yv2S