Newspapers / The Weekly Raleigh Register … / Dec. 29, 1806, edition 1 / Page 1
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-W wife (fer? fe 14;; A , v,fe. . . Jk;JL ii.iLjkJii k'mt-mm;L&t&-'kj; Ik .,-A" Hiics,; ,4 -,. ',- ': ' i - ' : ' ' . 7 r Uawjrpybty.toUveMkcbrothet - '- -v-.,v-- vv,.: ' J $f- DEBATE - : . on the 4 - JUDICIARY BILL, ; i 5fr. Ca!tjeron' -Amendment for extending the District being under consideration. tfohtimted from car last. ) tjie present superior Icotirt syste only, eigfattourttie'R out-of si sty wer acccfmmoSatdf the nroiKJtl bill conternplitsr an $ivl acxoTnmoda-; Hon to very pwrt oi.xne;3tacc had5' iaeen aid JfolW&o0 'to'Wi change by genemeiiVhQiie triii! district- towns arid whhsc imprests: -will be raateriallyfaf!ctd by the. ropos41;r altemiori.- Thi -ppposi-liQii therefore was expected. V. The greatest .objection wfctdi had fee. rudu, tht . bttl beiire the bouse, had beeitwith ; respect tou- jries. it nan ueen sam imparuHii rursxQuld not beotlin the coun ties, tiiat l iiouu h these ju'rors are, good men when serving in he county; ourtiyt-'.' whe- tfrey shall 'be cal led into a superior court, they can not be trtisteU. Tor his, partr he could see no tbrce in thisjreaonin--nor did -he bclive abetter juiois could be in any other county than m that which they xCesidcdv If juror vf ere base' ami chxP vvhilein their own county, could - it be expected, or shall it be said, that so oon a;5 fhey get' in -sight of a 'district court house, they will ecome entirely changed ? 1 .,Ai)dagiiui, he asked, if any gentleman waaj , prepared to say, ht:constituenu were so base siid corrupt, vthat a j'4y- ot' honest men could net be had in their county ? Besides.; it would not he dented that anv Derson atten dints the court from- n ad iacent county, Would be as eli-i ble a jurbrje wculd beiflivingj inthe,sanveunty ; cand in extvaor idmarycases2!1hercy2s a ciuuse in1 the bill Cor removing ,ihe.-cause to SLtulncntr ountyi , lOthis prb'yi? siou, on expeiicncethouldot bj found iufficientitcanbe klteredi nd'made-so.' ' j-j- , " Soniethift; had been fca'td .with spect "to the little busmiss done in vthe presepisuperiorcoAii fiipm some of the counties. rTJiis,? he, thought as a good reason for carry tllese lodrts ihto'lhe4 seyenu counttcs. B?i cause, at preuV though a cpunV hajlugleawe ipipY. t? these coutts it s, taxeu ljO:nt 4Q lo 50ltperpr . the" pay .of jt, rk3h tt is obugpd to sendi rc' thcj couruiesi, fie skies, on - of tje reasons v!tiieracso fevr euU$trsj m someiof iiecouniiei is, thk -Sianyoormen arcmot abie to Cim curitieaHo tfteif appeals artd'oi vthlihcjo irtUjr be said to fie gemect;, thent. more than iPtneKiehth fihe peottte vere benefitted y thei -.present -fi; nips on lth dfcs, navfcauoweu lusuce had 'not; beeaonej yetneL ntv dreadrtig the expence tot u , appeal, has g.ven UthH ngnt; Ilie knew a cause uht up fron Granvii ebunty tuu Pffj -wfcwtrf x where the-debt-was- oniy stx- j pence and tmosts-iiv the.eytnt, a4; inouitedtofoi-SQl ; In the cistviw, in , citizens :oMMtQ- 1 he livedi he su? citizens &5atawerw 'Hn unW.heaesjMe kK -:,, rnuit1 be done i their? wwn co4ntfiibnfe Avbuld-ift-a.umfcjettt IBttKot lesswise when pre! Vin In peior courcy inan uicy, arewlrfheict .cou tvand "4r4tWry;teyitU:nctf, a triaf vouid doubdess be -gnted,, Svhich Isilrenyhetaseuhder to he; Jye&.pot be.r Ueto$Ml tn tmMkeW system, he, thduftlnVihey might ridra jirwt t)? ,u rsrf tieinseivc, I v ' . - n ueWfl; Mti & pfeprcdMo f enter uD thbOc wh : fal Mi Ctrtdouthy UiDfiU at one lime and place, wrr'ch is so ' muccoltvlSihed of uhder'tlie pre sent systen, jL hereiore eq'.nty bu siness could be muc,h bettci atte nded tosthaiiatpre$eht.;: , As to establishing a court of liity a Remlv fer ;the whole siS'if ctltlenien !ad been, in the last. '."A . sCimbly,Htjiey vouH! ;hive known the opiniti WhtcU wai Hlien entertained of that plin, antr be did 1 not expect UHToukVnoAv meet, wth tnort more coun tenance thin it did they. , ' ( f $tr; C said it had "be-en oljWrved bythe gentlemen ifowrOranije, t ba the bill belore .the house :youtrl leav it irt the pOAver. of the '-wealthy to harrass tfett poor rnat he ...thought it twould have the contrary cfict. For, snid Mr. C. if theiti was a court' established .at tn .eat of t.vern menu whijre idl persons in the Stat - were co peded to resort for justice would not this Jcrvvc it compleaUy in the power of a f wealthy man to hatrass hi por neihbtArraT burely it would. Then, by the same rule of reasoning, it has the same eftect in a certain decree, yher 8 or 10 couotievare all bound to one spot. Upon the whfclei us the bill was calculated' t accommodate the peo ple at larre, and the proposed a- mend-ment only a few, he hoped the,: aill w;;u!d be preferred, and the a mendmenc proposed by the gentle man from Orange, rejected. Mr. NoRiifoo was in favour of the amendment i. but before he en tered Into a discussion of the merits of that amendment, or of the bill, he wished to take notice of a reason which had been assigned in favour of the . hitl,' that it s ihe V'dof the peo pie, the wi-ih of ihe comi;un'ty. H was disposed to pyy a much respec as any other member of that houst to the Will of tlie piople, wber he was convinced that wM had h?en foimed from full infiatmal-idtt cn tiv subject on which it wu expressed , but when he Was convinced me opi ntdn of, hi& contVuien had been formed v wl hout" having the necessd-' ryJactsefoii . tiiern on which to rtiund'a coirect-juigioent, he should not be disposed t j pay the smallest alien ion to their wishes. lluw, said her am I to know whai innuence mitrht haVe been had upon the miadsoflhc-.p?op)eby.inten.-sted lawyer- who Wight wish to exclude ft o,ii their circulu men tf supe i ior ' ateni or by nieh who possess pm- ferty at ?the Scat ct tne ; coumy eVur$-hbuVeL ? It seeded efctraprdi-, nary that sonie ot thePcpuiuies m fa- how neonlc thus Situated could am- plin jof oppression fvtm the present i tviem. 'lis- coutaoi ocnev uicv; hasbeen xoTrectry -imormeu-un- wiej subject. Saccpumies must cer4 Uiniy hav een deceived, - or, tleyj could imvrYibU to, pay their pSrt ef ?lh experice of evxying a supe .-; nor OTurr1itnu,mrc-.--'j-w.-- If said 1vtr.!N"- nveMvere to admit tlvat jthejtifBC would be destruciivc toour. tostj ftorfdnrt t0 onr ltnern hTit.for thisMfc-had no lieedDf a cpn- Fsti tut ion iieRepretantatHfeftj -o i rthtWA mornidlhe consutu toa..-.-,tor-etaw-,.3mv y f? vtel'cstvthey tnere ile for iheir 6g- vernmerrt Vefupt to respeca t J v i .t 7 r J this rule, vainer mM v ut . .t ,ko hn,i4f to be the oiii' c onsiit utfonaMj-? lie ,hadbeM;ih - Withoect tti the expeditncy of 'the' sneasttrer fy. f saii he .j would make a twoDserrauous. ne great ; kenefitjfeder ved Ixmimpai . tial and eniightehed jurors, wiose f mind have q.A 'been prepossessed hy jeithe. party had been, alreaily Ik w-,''''Mf -ianfie - of oroctirintf uch jaries U greatly les'sened by the iirboosed chanee . - - tour arthw-6ysw nayno. a auu, glestiitiii th, Superior Court fcf $x dtocU tCoulci;nbt conceive Hit The Siges who tormed oun lunti-'-lv" a?;V-i'Mi i. the People might have, beert v jeit to make wspeably to; the will f I c wiU. We OUghiV saia ne, io cr ainine whether the ste proposed b9 !tay'nh::present:e.. t$ thenmnt: it t . ay tne oni m i0e. taoie every lawyer , will be. locatfid to some par ticular district. Be will have no inddnement to apply .himself to the arairjet'pr.fQrln'erlavv-learnui ad emulation with his brethren of the bars will be eut off-the .re spectability, of the bar wiihof conrse de'.linc. From this" bar our future Judges must be taken. Our Judges wdl therefore be meh of less l espec- uicnmea ciepart- i ment of government, that bulwark of out Ith rtiesv which it ;tiow is-it will vink into almost nothing, : has been said, that the exper.te j r of jurit is net to be considered.! Dtt this ex pence" is at present 12,000' dollars a year, arid it will be much j greater under the proposed system. vVhether tlve jurors are paid by the public or not is immaterial.- It is more burthenseme if the jurors are not paid. At present, many-of the counties do not send more than three jurors to their ..superior court by t he proposed bill, they are to call but thirty-two a year. ' Surely this will be a heavy service. Another inconvenience which will arie from the proposed system is, ma6y of (he court houses there arc no accommodations fit to enter ain your Judge. The Judge, gen Jemen of the bar, suitors and wit nesses, will probably all be crowded into one small room. But it was i aid, that people Aho owned pro perly at the different court-houses would make improvements so as to :e able to. emertuin the company that, might attend these court's. But rhen it is seen how those persons are served who have made improve ments for this purpose in the dis trict to W4is, will any one have confi dence enough in ihe stability of the new system to do mis ? It h i? bten up:td against the pre sent system, that the benefits "deri ved 'from it are unequal ; and he perf ctly agreed with gmdemen-that .".o far "as the nature of our govern ment. Would admit, the benefits ught to be equal. But this cannot be. Suppose a superior court car ried to every court- house, the people living about the ' cburi-h.ouc.w lif be- more benefitted by" it, than those, who live lh the extreme parts of the county. Every benefit cannot be ex tended eqtlallv to every citizen. We ' rm'fht o ('nnir't-r wh'thpr the. rnm. 1 mrtrtitv at larce will receive the niofcfl benefii from this or that svstem. and I! nt whether this tr that particular- neighbourhood will be accomaio ... . . ' dated by ir. It has been said, that the present 1 syrem is oppressive to the poor ; for if a decision goes against a poor titan ataxcouaty cotlrt, he has it hot m' his tower to prosecute -anr appeal for, want of suretiesr He supposed j security foran appeal wouldbe requi Lredifijnde-r the - proposed system e qnaliv with the present; With much ! less crlaVlce ofjttft c'e. ItwbuM be easy tor a nrtan oi u uuence lo maRe anmptes-stoijc on the public nlind in his favour. ; WhWamt in coun ty , the shibjee t of 'it., ia spoh t aled a . 1tiV:-v1"tfoTati isjobliged to I la&urat fiomeilstf, vealthyf vy ntrilio pltee, tand 'y -makean im J prssim ort 4h6 dtibltc Htfeu'rable to, his ati0e v; And, ot oyims -.pubhcc urrjrc ',draw4i tb;'tryUtet cause. On the pft of thirargu-1 mentt; he would! ea tipoh ifa gern lemln last; ti a?ask;im if hef o'uhtt1.ftitch h'nie (Person ! had not been- at one Jtme so divided f h&m,i4lit justtt -could' not be obtained in a ivelK&non case The Sherih beidg an lianest;miir'and Veil' ac'ctam&d with thje parties, was, in tfie habit of su morion iivg an ecjuat number of each tjide Uld no ye .'diet could ever be got, ;iill the suit was brought to the Siirperibr Co'uft . If that county sptfldat divjded in sucli a way, what onllhe tlone under the new system? Mn-N. be- litved that in somof the counties there- were famlierabFsuctyfnfluence, that' justice could npt be had againit thera. ' f; Xhc " court-system of S. Carolina has beeri frequently mentioned. lie professed not to be acijainted with J froiiilond j unuit yvand thcir dectsions less sound ; : posed for this State', except tha$ the j and wise. Our Judiciary- will nof.fi Courts are held in small districtT luisei remain uiai j ted with it, and he had rightly tin- derstood him, all cases of pleas are confined to their superior courts, and j that, on that account, assaults and batteries have,' in a great ' degree, subsided. But, according to the thill before the house cognlanqe af uiese misaemeanorssiut remain witn our county courts. There is there fore , no si milari ty between the sysi tern of .S. Carolina and that now pro- t ne proposed system will ue op. upressi vein another, point - of vifew.r n Not more than two or three lawyers ( will attend these WpHorcouftsV'.'It. will be easy lor a wehvr ml tb engage all these lawyers. Suppose I this not the case, that one of these I grntlenien is unengaged. Does it not put it in the power of that man to demand what fee he pleases for his services r Afid will not the party be obliged to give it ? For when a man has' considerable property at stake, he will -,ive any fee that imay be asked, rather than risk the loss of his suit for want of counsel. And the lawyers will be compelled to ask these large fees ; for having tut two or three causes at a court) they must be well paid for them. Vi The gentleman from' Person had spoke bf paying 4 or 501. a year for 'jurors to the .superior court ; .is J that county sends but three-jurors, the espence cannot be so great. In future they will have to call out 30 twice a year. Another inconvenietice will arise in the proposed system.. When a criminal is apprehended, he will be committed to the jail of the county, ana in most instances the prisoner may obtain the affidavit rquired for j removing the tr'u-l to an adjacent county ; aiid this removal will pro hably afford the criminal an opportu ty of making his escape. 'Another inconvenience attending the" "i-ro ooseH system v"No bookstJ cou'd be had in tlit several counties ; Bar or the Judge to decide impor tant causes without the assistance of books. "And can it be supposed tbru the Judge will make. these de cisions Without such asttistariceK? Pie, witl not, and the consequence w ill be; that very many t)f these causes will be sent for decision to the? 'Supreme Court? in this eityi andtlie parties I Wili have to "fellow them. , . I ne t wo st objections above are: , . .m suiliCJent to shewtne impropriety ox adopting IrreiW.i ! Vvff obsevye4Ahat:he was ? one if ihn4& . whcL badthj;: honor, to might thefetore be supposed to pos- seis prejudices on this qtiestion Bin ifhc had any knowledge of him self, he was perfectly '-unprejudiced. He looked upon the general good of the community at large, as tnt? great object of hjs enquiry, bo'tgtr as the local, interests of Fayetteydle may be concerned, he said he would feel himself 'bound to attend them ; but.oh every general question, whate ver might be. the conseuencesv )e should think awl act for himself.' Thatthe present system of juris- rirudence is imperfect, -Mr J); said must .beJcnitcdf1, ':te. rlithuhian bigitojK f aelvea inipertect, and-whose qirspiing must be so. And therefore , white-; verystetrri rnight 'ieprosed''-W0tttd he found tcT hate defeCtiirits igUi To sa i becausea sy'sterii.. i s defe IWy it ought to beJabrogatedi.uld Ife tb TJtesfervc hnthing $ ahd to charged Xht' present systeth with belAg very mcnSmieni in sbmeVespe1:tSi iscer-l tainly not sutticient reason ior alter-- mg tne-jnwpw-myiiv fs wuuu-. ed . v ;. " --s .- 'at4iitei3W.lbat every sys ? tetnwieh can be devised will haVe defcist from its; origin, we are now to enquire saiajvir. uj wneincr w4 are to- dts roy this system, and accept of one whicih tnay have more delict, and which has hot had the test of experience . - , The inconveniencies whicli arise frofti the present sy3tcm are -all known. We have been under the operation of this system for upwards of JO year's, and have ascertained its value. The, system proposed is novel one, at kast to us. He be lieved it was novel in all the States,. onctdopua-which w must talce d leab hi. the aj'E:"- jieF pbsitionrgehtjemeh is a stei.fi1ciilielWiy which ,tve offer yoii ncaher, whii in theieibf the Jriehds tHejia system, beata"stiirinoreefect!yk the rejectid5jorthl Mphm;'Mv U. VerharKecl, bl&ctuse inpii venien'tV Ittnyeilenee''ajcme that ought f to e com menda court ium u a pure aammisrration ot-jils-tice-ihatv wjiicft . wpi;$equrje50 th onc under which ry mittltnaj cqhsidr hjfmsell'ia ':U$&xfi: at ;$id44uffisrm'4Vif3 It is not contehaned that thedecirfbtfa of ouriojurtS '-aire corrupt.' " TheiVe pure and such fdo hbl'oW nch, and this is, a goodireasor a gamst chan gmg an establtsned sya tem, for oneofepedmerit - The uetionfcorivetitnce. Mr D. saidv ought nbt to be that which should decide this. But if justice is administered with abUttyfidinte gi ity, ive ought to rest satisfied, and and reject all idea of . ai change of principle. U the present systeiu , can be mpdifierct it be doije -y. but it would be making too rash art exv v-vi.iuv.jit U4 uiiovv ii awav aitof-e- tet-us examineaid;MrV ti. vthit are the ihcoovenieif the present system. It is said that citizens are '.bilged to attend the Superior Courtk at a great distance from home, and dl a pence tnac isoppressiye to t he poojr rnan ; andf the proposed system it. is aledged VouId'affora J rehef in tlni respect, though he thought : his appeared rather, in ar gument than m fact. ; - .-" , This; micfi - abuL-tta -.pQo mpi said Mr. D. is a mere i uaihatioiA line to decoy rather than any thii.g else. It is declared by la that no suit shall originate n Uieupenor court whose Value Is less than lQQ And a man who had a -suit; to thjs amount could not be considered a very' poor man, hbr could, he be ruined W going to a! clistrict, suj t tor court. The poor mAn Vf beei provided for by the negislaturi, hla cause . is flried in the county court? and if he be injured there, he may bring ;uj5 his cause by appeal to the suneriocoiitt. Hieexpece bf the attendance of witnesses and jurors at the district snperIoT;eddfti been;merltiotiecU AdmHting these ihednveniences Ho exist, he Would ask whethergteafer would not drise from a change -bt the sy-3temj4The very; incbnvenrerid of trying ;ease in the county where they originate, wher every hiatteV undergoes privaie.dkcussibh in tH court-yararatia trj.jdrym'airycis " into the hall of, juy:iceeparc6 give a decision vhich nci reason Sr evwence can alter, is much greater, " in tae arrangement thelpresedt supefiotourts, the same 'vbiasdW not takepkcelv .;t' - '.m- - - It hai betrijobseryed 4liat pfefrom he diitant kouhtiesfW dil- trict comevtovourt, and felvenSelr money in tM district totvhsVhJi neyKlh ttsirkt tbwlifoV at the dhTerent ouiitun-houstv?' ncwucyeorit was-ot marj? ycai vantagetd tfetetl widith&merehartt ilMhdistrte;tbwaan u iuaiMnwi ience. KutMrt'h. how tfWinfas thii consideib rhen theviimpprtanti question of change in )Lhide of admiiiister iog justice jwas-Under contempratnv n The Stato of NorthiCarolinaf Miv Di obserterl had prospered, under the preseui system tile cduairy ba4 increase'd in populatiorr and wealth i arid tlie irSconvcnitneies icomplained of under it,?oonsijit -moreen fancy nan, in iaci. . T The gentleman from Alison Jiadf informed ' the bpuse that HhV4ioo njan: is yery lreufri;epijy(i of hts right fqr want of &exurityl)car ry up his ; appeal.' Jtle could 'wf.i&nji thc2lf he had beeri in tKi'jpaUo. ' -.f thevJaw1 (arid lather more exC- si tci, iic prcsuraeuj .an inat gen ttecnan) tor tpurteen; years in this btate, he had never seen.an instance of the kind. If tlie gcntteinart haW seen such; an instance,' it must Hay been a single one, from which. r- " i unceouglu tobodtar 1 'I -4 :?i I if i i :v 4! h - 7. j - i. It ; J 31 '"" v ,4 '' Sri -Vj- -S
The Weekly Raleigh Register (Raleigh, N.C.)
Standardized title groups preceding, succeeding, and alternate titles together.
Dec. 29, 1806, edition 1
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